EPA listings on saw stickers

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Max

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I actually read the sticker information on the top of my saws,
340 & 357xp and had a question. The 340 is rated "U.S. EPA PH2"
and the 357xp is rated "U.S. EPA PH1" Does it have anything to do with the pro vs. homeowner durability or is it strictly an emission type of thing? Any takers?
 
epa1 vs epa2

There is a difference but it is not in quality. I think epa 1 means it has to meet emission standards as set up from the factory. Epa 2 is a stricter, newer standard in which the unit has to meet the emission standard for a certain number of hours. If you read further on the sticker on your 340, you will see a rating of, I believe, A, B, or C. A has to meet emission standards for 300 hours of unit life, b is 125,and c is 50 hours. There has been a lot of talk here lately about converters on saws and I noticed both of the newer 353 and 359 saws come with converters. Not sure about the 359 but the newer 353 meets phase 2 standards and mine (about 1 year old) is rated epa1. I actually talked to a husky tech about some of this and he said other than a possible converter, the only difference between an epa 1 and 2 saw would be that the 2 is jetted leaner. Saws with a converter can be identified by saying e*-tech near the model number on the starter housing and I think they also have a green gas cap. Possibly to tell you to use a higher grade fuel as to not plug up the converter.
 
Phase two is the new set of regs that is more stringent than phase 1. Go have a peek at epa.gov and you can actually read what the standards are. It his nothing to do with a hour based emmisions compliance or lean jetting.
 
Also, bigger engines obviously have less strict standards than smaller ones. I think a certain % of a manufacturers units have to meet ph 2 standards and thats why they pick small models and popular mid size models (353+359).
 
Ben, yes it does have to do with hour ratings. I just looked in my 353 owners manual and it distinctly shows the differences in the epa 1 and 2 standards and how the a b and c codes have to meet standards for a certain hours. It also does have to do with lean jetting. How else (other than a converter) do you think they are getting less emissions?
 
RJS

That is why I took the time to type PH1 & PH2.

I was wondering what the differences were in the two ratings?

Just trying to learn something new here thats all!

On the 141 it states it is rated for "50 hrs" in the same type of sticker.
 
Thanks for the info Brent.
By the way how is the Red Tavern? Its been a few years since I was in Malone to see a buddy of mine and hunt. Nice part of the world up there!
 
red tavern

Its still there. I go there once in a while on snowmobile or atv. Most people go there and cant believe there is no power and it only runs on a generator. A nice little place to get away.
 
Phase 3 kicks in in 05.

EPA hour rating is how long they have judged the engine will meet regs with only routine maintenance, not how long the engine will last. Of course a simple carb rebuild or replacement is about all that is needed if the maintenance has been done right.
 
I just wish the EPA would butt out and let our saws alone, not restrict them so much.

My opinion is the EPA is a big plug in a small socket. it just doesnt work, As soon as the 4 stroke saws come out I'm outta here, I hate 4 stroke engines, they essentially make my life hell.
 
I wouldnt count on four strok saws displacing two cycles anytime soon. Several companies including husky already have compliant two cycle engines. In the long run the epa regs will result in better saws. Its just we have been shafted with stop gap fixes(stuffy mufflers, fixed jet carbs, cats, etc) in the short tearm.
 
I agree.  Who among us remembers the transformation from Rochester carbs and maybe a PCV to what we have now in automobiles (SEFI and on-plug coils)?  There was some crappy stuff along the way but things work rather well now; better across the board than they did back then.

Glen
 
Make no mistake about it............
EPA ratings do show an intent of design, component life.
Ben Walker, Nevada Walrus, and Brent Denny touched on it

EPA/CARB....AND.....engine makers worked together on the rating, and it's a Federal mandate so buyers can judge compliance AND quality. A Federal requirement so people don't get bamboozled....which is obviously happening.

The rating that will---is causing alot of misinformation, misunderstanding, and lots of confusion is EDP.

EDP can stand for two things, but is only germaine to EPA/CARB.

Engine Durability Peroid (EDP) is one.

EMISSIONS Durability Peroid (EDP)is another, but the key phrase.
It was smartly FORCED on the engine makers for you & me.
The Consumers....the buyers.

It does help....if used properly, BUTT unfortunately....many big names are behind in engine AND emissions development!!!!!!!!!

Let me simplify by providing some examples:

1. Engines must be TESTED & CERTIFIED.
If it doesn't mean much than why...tested & certified?

ALL engines must have a EDP rating of 50, 125, and 300 hours.
Engine types & displacements (classes) have differences.

2. One famous German manufacturer who now makes their own trimmer engines, including a four stroke w/2 cycle fuel makes a trimmer rated @ 50 hours, aka "C" rating, aka "Standard".
Sells for $199.95

Makes another trimmer rated @ 300 hrs, aka "A" rating, aka "Extended".
Sells for $299-$329.

If you pulled them apart, you'll see differences in everything from the clutch all the way to the carb.
Homeowner vs Pro.

Other companies also do similar builds.

3. Another famous Japanese maker (in Homely Despot) rates ALL their engines @ 300 hours, aka "A", aka "Extended".

But to get that rating....if my memory serves me exactly (have their spec sheet somewhere in my office):

*Every 90 days cylinder exhaust port must be inspected- cleaned!

* Every 600 hours or every year...carb must be replaced.

* Recommend every 25 or 50 hours flex cable be removed, cleaned relubed. Ever done that??? It's a pain, and a mess.

Just think about all that maintenance.

What's coming, the why & how has been hidden,
or attention diverted,
or neatly reworded.....from dealers, you, and me.

Deliberately downplayed!!

One soution to emissions has been catalytic mufflers.
Guess what that does to engine life, weight, heat, and price???
Have pictures of melting engine covers.

Try this test......take a piece of white cardboard hold it close to a catalytic muffler. Better yet a piece of newspaper.
Watch what happens.

Why do you think many companies started changing oil formulas, and ratios years ago. Wasn't just because they didn't have anything else to do on a rainy day.
They're trying every which way to reduce emissions.

Some just work alot better than others.
 
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