Ban on wood-fired boilers-Its started.

Arborist Forum

Help Support Arborist Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Rspike

ArboristSite Operative
Joined
Jan 5, 2006
Messages
447
Reaction score
23
Location
mid-west
Ban on wood-fired boilers backed ,Friday, September 22, 2006
By PETER GOONAN
[email protected]
CHICOPEE - The Board of Aldermen voted unanimously last night to ask the Board of Health to ban outdoor wood fired boilers in response to recent complaints by some residents about smoke and pollution.

During a meeting at the City Hall Annex, Alderman-at-Large James K. Tillotson asked for two votes - one supporting the ban proposed by the Ordinance Committee and the other referring the matter for action by the Board of Health. Both were aoorived 12-0.

Tillotson said he conferred with the aldermen’s legal counsel, Daniel Garvey, about the best way to implement the ban, and they agreed it should go through the Board of Health.

Advertisement




“I think the Health Department has much clearer authority when it comes to health issues,” Tillotson said.

Board of Health Chairman Frank Boron, reached for comment after the meeting, said his board will ask the Law Department to draft the proposed ban, and will then hold public hearings before making a decision.

In the meantime, the Board of Health voted this week to extend its temporary moratorium on outdoor boilers until June 2007.

Aldermen said last night that it was clear from testimony, both last night and at a prior meeting of the Ordinance Committee, that outdoor boilers create a concern about public health and pose a nuisance to neighbors. The proposed ban is aimed at both new and existing boilers.

City officials know of four outdoor boilers in Chicopee. Two owners have defended their boilers, including one homeowner who received a building permit in advance and spent more than $10,000 for the boiler.

Several neighbors and nearby residents said the boilers are a health hazard due to the wood smoke that is emitted. They praised the aldermen for taking up the issue.

Joseph T. and Arelia G. Tumidajewicz of 340 Pendleton Drive, who live next to a house heated by an outdoor wood boiler, said they were very pleased by last night’s vote.

“I think a lot of communities will follow Chicopee’s lead,” Arelia Tumidajewicz said.

Others speaking in favor of the ban last night included Janet Sinclair of Buckland, and Curt Freedman, P.E., a professor at Western New England College, who teaches energy management.

In other action, aldermen gave a first reading to an ordinance to allow no more than 59 billboard “faces” in the city. Currently, the ordinance allows no more than 31 billboards, but confusion emerged because of different ways of counting signs, depending on whether the faces of the billboards are connected, partially connected or separate.

The proposal for 59 billboard faces allows for the 50 current sign faces in the city, signs under consideration, and some leeway for one or two signs previously proposed, Tillotson said.
 
Last edited:
Guy around here was on the news bragging, "I burn 15 cords a year and heat my entire house".(2 story farmhouse)



Just makes you wonder......
 
RaisedByWolves said:
Guy around here was on the news bragging, "I burn 15 cords a year and heat my entire house".(2 story farmhouse)



Just makes you wonder......

Most boilers are overkill for small homes.

I did the numbers for my house, a 3k insert will heat the whole thing where a 12k outdoor boiler (installed price, I cannot do most of the work. Franklin, WI is permit happy) would be overkill. I would need a hydronic system that heated the entire garager and sidewalk to fully utilize the boiler.

My only reason for likeing the boiler is that it is outside, and i can throw the big chunks of crap into it once a day.


Here in WI there is talk about mandating the use of only the high efficiency units like Garn. The problem there is they require dried to 20% or less.
 
CHICOPEE - The Board of Aldermen voted unanimously last night to ask the Board of Health to ban outdoor wood fired boilers in response to recent complaints by some residents about smoke and pollution.

lol...will fireplaces be next?

now, if a homeowner had installed one right next to a neighbor's house where the smoke would blow into the neighbor's house all day, then maybe initiating a set of codes would be a better idea than a ban. not everyone installs things with being neighborly in mind.

i think the board over reacted.
 
mga said:
lol...will fireplaces be next?
unknown , Maybe. Normally the fire place is used for a nice setting once in a wile and not used for heat. The wood boiler is used in a different way. Normally a fire place is not used 24/7 like a wood boiler. I'm excited my self to see ANY heating unit ( wood, coal, pellet,corn ect ) to be controled by EPA and to have guide lines. Some of the wood boilers are only 20% efficiency !! 20% !! and even some of the better ones are only 40% . Theres no way you would buy a home furnace of electric or gas that only got 20% efficiency so why buy one of Wood that is only 20%-40% efficiency? Wouldnt it be nice if they were at least 70%-80% efficiency ? I would think so. The wood boiler would burn less wood and it would burn at under 10 Gm/Hr Emmisions vs the 50-80 grams per hours that do now. = 1 outdoor wood boiler puts off emmisions of 80 modern epa wood stoves. 80 STOVES !!!! My wood stove runs at 3.5 grams per hour and is rated at 97,000 BTU's and there NO down fall to it. Whats wrong with a better burning wood boiler that heats better and burns less wood ? We already know the EPA and such (& countys -towns ) are going to get a hand in outdoor wood boilers in the future. I just feel sorry for the people that put up good $$ from $3,000.oo - $30,000.oo and might end up loosing the use of there stove. The bans i has seen and read about are not grandfathering in the already use of the stoves now being used. The bans i have read about are wood boilers all togother. I think the outdoor wood boiler makers need to step up to the plate and get a better efficiency out of there product before the EPA baby sitter has to take over.
 
BTW: Woodboiler users , I'm on you side .... I just think the outdoor wood boiler needs to be up to par. I think that something that is only getting 20%-40% efficiency and is putting out 50-80 gm/hr of emmisions that the outdoor wood boiler user/owner is getting ripped off. All the smoke that is going out the stack is unused HEAT . With some kinda of secondary combustion chamber for all that unused smoke the outdoor boiler owner could keep it and turn it into heat and not smoke. I wonder is most outdoor wood boiler owners relly know that there stove is only getting 20% to 40% efficiency?
 
Rspike said:
Whats wrong with a better burning wood boiler that heats better and burns less wood ?

My understanding is that some of the new high-e makes are 60-70%. The need for low water content just takes a lot of the desirableness away from them from my standpoint.

To get to 20% you need to split and dry indoors. Sure the waste heat from the boiler could be used in a fast kiln (who cares if the wood cracks, but that is more investent in time and manterials. Iliked the idea because scrap was viable fuel.

It's for sure that boilers are smokey, especialy when the blower kicks in.
 
John Paul Sanborn said:
My understanding is that some of the new high-e makes are 60-70%. The need for low water content just takes a lot of the desirableness away from them from my standpoint.

To get to 20% you need to split and dry indoors. Sure the waste heat from the boiler could be used in a fast kiln (who cares if the wood cracks, but that is more investent in time and manterials. Iliked the idea because scrap was viable fuel.

It's for sure that boilers are smokey, especialy when the blower kicks in.
The proof is in the pudding so to speak. I would really like to see how an out door wood boiler can get 60%-70% when they go idel. An indoor woodstove is burning from start to finish on a log to get 60%-70% so i wonder how you can take away secondary combustion and choke down a stove to idel and still get 60%-70% efficiency. Its all a #'s game when outdoor wood boilers clam to get 60%-70% efficiency with the stove going idel and and restart up. The only way a outdoor boiler is getting 60%-70% is when showing burn time only. There was one link i posted the guy put in fire bricks , made a secondary combustion chamber and used only dry wood and made small fires to keep it hot and STILL only was only able to get under 50% efficiency.
 
That wood heat site is full of crap on outdoor wood stoves.
What ever
 
i have a neighbor a couple of houses down who has a wood burning stove in the house. he does heat his home with it all winter. however, there are times when i can smell he's buring garbage like plastics, paper trash etc...it just has that smell......

this is the type who ruins it for everyone else.
 
burning trash

That moron up the street burning trash and plastic is creating a nice layer of acid to eat away at his fire box. He will get his own soon.
Puck
 
mga said:
i have a neighbor a couple of houses down who has a wood burning stove in the house. he does heat his home with it all winter. however, there are times when i can smell he's buring garbage like plastics, paper trash etc...it just has that smell......

this is the type who ruins it for everyone else.


You might go talk with him and tell him that it's very noticeable that he's burning garbage and it will destroy his stove and the reputation of wood burners.

A couple years ago I gave a bunch of Soft Maple logs to neighbor with a wood boiler , from what I could tell he had planed to heat his house with a large pile of pressure treated scrap posts...:help:..

He was very apprtiative of me giving him "good" wood and my family and I where spared the lung cancer!
 
Out door Stoves

Is this bann going to be in the whole USA? We have friends that have an outdoor system that dates back to the 1950's and alot of us are making plans from his stove to build our owen. Two are already finished and I'm already more than 1/2 way done with mine. I need to add his outdoor stove from the 50's heats his house,greenhouse, and garage. Plus his has a 20-25ft chimmey and burns very clean and eff. Will be watching thread close Tony N.J. PS I bet the oil companys will love this bann!!!!:censored: :censored: :cry: :cry:
 
Tony, being that your in NJ I would seroiusly consider getting some info from your township (in a round about way;) ) concerning these (or any) type of stove.


Its mostly up to your township, around here anyway.
 
im with rspike on the efficency issue--but--most non woodburners arent aware of the issue--that being said--this bs about not burning wood needs to be stopped---NOW--theres enough freedoms being taken away---my old riteway wood burning furnace is damn efficent--how i know--because of the amount of wood i burn to heat our house--and this was long before they rated them--and --people in this town know me as about the only one that burns--and they like the smell of my wood burning--only smoke is when i throw a new log on--and then only for a while--also--when the woodburner is going--if your only heating the house--not the wash water--wont the neighbors windows be closed because its cold outside????? sheesh
 
ban on outdoor stoves

first id like to say if i did at this point have one and a neighbor complained id try to fix the problem. also woodstoves have been around for years and now everyone is having problems with the smoke? i think its more about smoke being blown up someones behind! there wasnt a problem until fuel oil sky rocketed and people started buying them. in the summer i fill my dads up once every 3-4 days. in the winter i fill it twice a day...he prefers once, but i dont agree and our electric up here is not reliable to say the least! i want them to be warm! if my neighbors who all have wood stoves indoor and out want to complain..they know where to come! no one does because wood is our sustanance so to speak, as well as theirs! it would cost me 700.00 to fill my oil barrel and it uses 3 for the winter thats 2100.00! wood is all i have! not all of us has a gazillion dollars to spend on electric, propane, or heating fuel! thats why we use the boilers! and i dont even have mine yet! but i have to cut the wood for it for my mom and dad! not that i mind they are my parents, i do mind all this epa bs! try having a sick baby with no fuel and only a woodstove when the ice is on the electric lines? what do you think keeps them warm? you all need to think about stuff like that! sorry stuff like this just p@@@@@ me off! i apologize if ive offended anyone! i hope i have, maybe theyll think twice, about whether my nieces should freeze to death or a little smoke might get up their nose! sorry this is just a sore subject with me!
 
Its not so much about "burning wood" as it is about the ways wood is being burned. Wood burning is not going to go away or be ban in my life time but "outdated wood burning" will be. First i like to say to all the people that burn "green wood" is working a lot more harder then they should. Your only going to get less than 25% of the heat value out of wood burning when its green. Look it up , do the research. Also with hight efficiency wood burning stoves you get less smoke ............So what does that mean to us wood burners ? no smoke = more heat. Like on secondary combustion stoves they burn the smoke that would normally go up the pipe and that = HEAT . secondary combustion chambers are taking smoke that normally goes out the pipe and burns it and at the average of 1100° what in turn is a more efficient stove = less wood + longer burn times. A higher efficient stove is not a wood burners enemie ........... higher efficient is on our side. Its like watching a bunch of people defend there 25% efficient gas furnace. Its time to wake up. Why are so many people bucking the fact that high efficient is not better ? Again , i "was" going to buy an outdoor wood boiler until i found out it was going to take 3 X more wood and was only 25%-45% efficient and was $7,000 to install . Now what would be wrong with an out door wood boiler that didnt take more wood & was at least 70% efficient ? As long as wood burning stoves can meet the EPA regulations there will be wood burning. Hell , before EPA got control of wood burning (indoor stove for now )we were sending $$ up the stove pipe. I heated a house with a "air tight" older non- EPA wood stove and took 8-9 cords to heat the home. Same home and a new EPA wood stove and now it takes only 3-4 cords of wood. You can't get much easier math than that. The bonus is no smoke. ( note: thats heating my home 100% with wood heat )
 
Last edited:
Rspike said:
Its not so much about "burning wood" as it is about the ways wood is being burned. Wood burning is not going to go away or be ban in my life time but "outdated wood burning" will be. First i like to say to all the people that burn "green wood" is working a lot more harder then they should. Your only going to get less than 25% of the heat value out of wood burning when its green. Look it up , do the research. Also with hight efficiency wood burning stoves you get less smoke ............So what does that mean to us wood burners ? no smoke = more heat. Like on secondary combustion stoves they burn the smoke that would normally go up the pipe and that = HEAT . secondary combustion chambers are taking smoke that normally goes out the pipe and burns it and at the average of 1100° what in turn is a more efficient stove = less wood + longer burn times. A higher efficient stove is not a wood burners enemie ........... higher efficient is on our side. Its like watching a bunch of people defend there 25% efficient gas furnace. Its time to wake up. Why are so many people bucking the fact that high efficient is not better ? Again , i "was" going to buy an outdoor wood boiler until i found out it was going to take 3 X more wood and was only 25%-45% efficient and was $7,000 to install . Now what would be wrong with an out door wood boiler that didnt take more wood & was at least 70% efficient ? As long as wood burning stoves can meet the EPA regulations there will be wood burning. Hell , before EPA got control of wood burning (indoor stove for now )we were sending $$ up the stove pipe. I heated a house with a "air tight" older non- EPA wood stove and took 8-9 cords to heat the home. Same home and a new EPA wood stove and now it takes only 3-4 cords of wood. You can't get much easier math than that. The bonus is no smoke. ( note: thats heating my home 100% with wood heat )

How many fans do you have in the house to move the air around???
Is this stove heating your hot water????
how old is your house and how is the R-valve in the walls and ceiling?
Why I ask is I have not seen a OWB use 12 cords a year to heat a house like yours and also with out the hotwater getting heated. (I got that number with 3x your 4 cord you burn now).
My house is 1800sqft house with hotwater heater kit on and no R-value any where, I keep my house at 76 deg all winter long and burn 5 full cords. The only way I know this is becuz I made sure I did take count on my wood and what my burn time was with my "home made boiler". They smoke a little bit more then your stove in real life, do you belive every thing you see on T.V. Rspike, I hope not, so y do you think OWB smoke and cant burn well and so on????? CUZ YOU READ IT ON THE WEB..........................
See it and do it before you make this big thing out of it, and yes I do have an soap stone stove at the cabin that I do really like but I hate having the fire in house.
 
MS-310 said:
How many fans do you have in the house to move the air around???
Is this stove heating your hot water????
how old is your house and how is the R-valve in the walls and ceiling?
Why I ask is I have not seen a OWB use 12 cords a year to heat a house like yours and also with out the hotwater getting heated. (I got that number with 3x your 4 cord you burn now).
My house is 1800sqft house with hotwater heater kit on and no R-value any where, I keep my house at 76 deg all winter long and burn 5 full cords. The only way I know this is becuz I made sure I did take count on my wood and what my burn time was with my "home made boiler". They smoke a little bit more then your stove in real life, do you belive every thing you see on T.V. Rspike, I hope not, so y do you think OWB smoke and cant burn well and so on????? CUZ YOU READ IT ON THE WEB..........................
See it and do it before you make this big thing out of it, and yes I do have an soap stone stove at the cabin that I do really like but I hate having the fire in house.
I'm not the one baning out door wood boilers! Some one must belive there Smokey and less efficient if there baning them as we speak. There has been a lot of testing of out door wood boilers and in turn there getting the boot in a lot of states. Your asking the wrong guy your questions. I would contact these states that have done test and with there test they feel out door wood boilers are not worthy to be in there area. BTW I got X3 the wood from where i was looking at buying a out door wood boiler. It was there statement of how much wood i would use to heat my house. Funny thing is all the people that say that out door wood boilers are efficient but have NO data or documents , links , proof or test to show. Again , dont blame me ........... talk to the states that have done test and are giving them the boot.
 
Back
Top