070 starter

[harrygrey382]

So my new 070 arrived a couple of days ago, and my first step is sorting the starter out. It was slipping, which I found was the cup housing slipping on the crankshaft because the flywheel nut wasn't tight. But my first question is, is this really all that held it from slipping? There was a little grub screw (someone snapped it at one time) in a groove, but this couldn't have taken any torque.
IPLs aren't much good, and my two service manuals are not very forthcoming about the starter area.
Also, the flywheel is loose, and the collar that holds it in is tight, I would've thought they were always togther... But no I guess, again, IPL no good. I've now got to order the puller as the 056/076 one doesn't fit. Although the special tools catalogue is totally fu*ked with part nos, I found the proper part no in one of lakeside's posts

starter cup housing has been slipping - no surprise IMO, it will slip if the nut isn't tight enough, unless eomthing is broken/missing?

grub should be sitting in this groove, but surely it can't be taking torque?

 

[blsnelling]

Maybe I'm missing something here. Were there four screws holding the fan to the flywheel?

 

[harrygrey382]

Maybe I'm missing something here. Were there four screws holding the fan to the flywheel?

yep. But the starter cup housing is separate

 

[blsnelling]

So you're asking if the torque of the flywheel nut is all that keeps the cup from spinning? What confused me is your comment "the flywheel is loose, and the collar that holds it in is tight". What did you mean there?

 

[dave k]

Im sure the answer to Brad's question will be yes, so when I got my old 070 which would be about the same age as yours it had a very worn nylon starter ring and I wonder is the metal ring I see in your pic fitting tightly enough ? I found the nylon ring NLA so went with the metal version and had to shim it with stainless steel shims. The starter cups I have seen like yours with no locating lugs would have had a brass ridged insert.
The starter cup and flywheel do seem to have a mild taper fit.

 

[harrygrey382]

So you're asking if the torque of the flywheel nut is all that keeps the cup from spinning? What confused me is your comment "the flywheel is loose, and the collar that holds it in is tight". What did you mean there?

yes I am. I should have been clearer - the bit about the flywheel should have been more separate. That's a separate problem:
1st problem - starter cup housing was loose and I think its holding mechanism is flawed. The fanwheel sort of seems to mate, but not really
2nd problem - the flywheel is loose and it's holding insert still tight, meancing they've separated

Im sure the answer to Brad's question will be yes, so when I got my old 070 which would be about the same age as yours it had a very worn nylon starter ring and I wonder is the metal ring I see in your pic fitting tightly enough ? I found the nylon ring NLA so went with the metal version and had to shim it with stainless steel shims. The starter cups I have seen like yours with no locating lugs would have had a brass ridged insert.
The starter cup and flywheel do seem to have a mild taper fit.

My metal ring is tight in the housing, it's the housing that was loose, and will be until I tighten up the flywheel nut. Is this how yours is held?
My 041 had the nylon cup, they seem to last a while...
What do you mean by the brass insert, where does it go? I can't spot any brass in mine...

 

[dave k]

It seems there are three types of starter cups for the 090,070 and Contra's - a cup with a pressed in brass insert which seems to be mainly Contra then a cup with a nylon insert in which the cup has been machined with lugs to hold the nylon in place and then a cup with a steel insert which presses in much the same as the brass version.
I had wondered if it was a nylon version which had had a steel ring placed in and had although it would appear ok it in fact would not be seated correctly.
I will have to check mine again but it seemed to hold only with the tighting of the flywheel.

 

[Dibbs]

Don't run out and buy a puller, make one from a piece of steel and use an ordinary gear/bearing puller.

Please forgive the crappy picture, it was done in 1 minute flat using Microsoft Paint!

Imagine the big circle is your flywheel from a bird's eye view.
The rectangle is a piece of steel.
There is a small hole at each end of the steel to allow a bolt to be inserted into the holes in the flywheel (which usually hold the fanwheel on) and one larger one in the middle to allow the crankshaft to go through it.
Put the puller on the crankshaft and the legs on each side of the steel then screw it until the flywheel pops off.

An old solid cutting bar can be used but it's a nightmare to drill holes in!
You will need carbide bits for stuff that hard.

 

[William Balaska]

Looks right to me Harry, I believe the nut should hold the cup tight if I recall, do you have the IPL? I have one will look tomorrow to confirm

 

[shawn022]

Yep all that holds it is the nut. The indexing pin you're missing is a rolled pin. You might want to rig one up, I'm sure it was there for a reason.

 

[harrygrey382]

Don't run out and buy a puller, make one from a piece of steel and use an ordinary gear/bearing puller.

Please forgive the crappy picture, it was done in 1 minute flat using Microsoft Paint!

Imagine the big circle is your flywheel from a bird's eye view.
The rectangle is a piece of steel.
There is a small hole at each end of the steel to allow a bolt to be inserted into the holes in the flywheel (which usually hold the fanwheel on) and one larger one in the middle to allow the crankshaft to go through it.
Put the puller on the crankshaft and the legs on each side of the steel then screw it until the flywheel pops off.

An old solid cutting bar can be used but it's a nightmare to drill holes in!
You will need carbide bits for stuff that hard.

it certainly does the job tho! I get the picture, and it sounds a good plan. Only thing I'm unsure about is - the flywheel is loose, and the collar (that takes the thread for the stihl puller) that holds it in is tight, but thinking further the flywheel should just pull it off. OK, will do that when I get enough time.

Looks right to me Harry, I believe the nut should hold the cup tight if I recall, do you have the IPL? I have one will look tomorrow to confirm

I have an IPL, it's not great - it only lists my fanwheel, no cup to go with it. Although as I'm writing this I'm looking at the 090 IPL which lists the cup as well, and it shows it's just a friction thing

Yep all that holds it is the nut. The indexing pin you're missing is a rolled pin. You might want to rig one up, I'm sure it was there for a reason.

Yeah, I guess. Even if it's just to help with assembly...