Apple Log Milling

[Marklambert61]

I milled an Apple log today for my buddy he planing to use it for gun stocks. I know Apple can be difficult to dry so I cut 12/4 boards planing to re-saw later.

Anyone have any tips on drying apple?

My last attempt was ugly...

Mark...

 

[peter nap]

I milled an Apple log today for my buddy he planing to use it for gun stocks. I know Apple can be difficult to dry so I cut 12/4 boards planing to re-saw later.

Anyone have any tips on drying apple?

My last attempt was ugly...

Mark...

He must be building Poor Boys. I;ve built 3 of them now.
The apple is tough as you noted and your doing what I did, cut it large, paint the ends and hope for the best.

Remember, if you air dry them (they'll be more stable that way) they'll have to dry a year an inch. I just stick them in the rafters and forget them.

 

[woodshop]

...cut it large, paint the ends and hope for the best. Remember, if you air dry them (they'll be more stable that way) they'll have to dry a year an inch. I just stick them in the rafters and forget them.

Good advice, paint the ends as soon as you can with a THICK coating of either anchorseal or latex paint so it doesn't dry too fast from the ends. Apple will still twist up on you a bit, just nature of the beast. Only thing I would part company with Peter is the length of time to dry... even my 12/4 apple was down to 20% MC after about 14 months when I milled it in Jan. That "year per inch" you hear so often is more of an urban legend than reality. Most 5/4 hardwood boards will air dry to 20% MC in less than 6 months, and in some cases much less. My 5/4 pine, poplar and redcedar stuff is dry in less than 3 months of summer drying.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

I agree with everything woodshop said, and want to add i would use Anchorseal, not paint. I also would put some a. seal on any of the wood that's highly figured, to keep it from checking to the surface...

That "may" add a little drying time though, but i wouldn't take a chance of not using it on wood that's known to be hard to dry properly.

Rob

 

[woodshop]

I agree with everything woodshop said, and want to add i would use Anchorseal, not paint. I also would put some a. seal on any of the wood that's highly figured, to keep it from checking to the surface...

That "may" add a little drying time though, but i wouldn't take a chance of not using it on wood that's known to be hard to dry properly.

Rob

Thanks Rob, Anchorseal (parafin based I think) is better than latex paint if you have anchorseal. You're right, when you end seal logs/boards they do take a little longer to dry, but that's the whole idea. Drying to quickly is what causes checking and splitting.

I wonder if a careful kiln dry schedule done in a professional kiln by somebody that knows what they are doing would keep apple from twisting. I know some kilns around here that will dry for a fee, but it is often less expensive the more wood you have since all species have their own kiln schedule of heat/time cycles etc. Thus they don't want to tie down a kiln for just a couple hundred feet of apple if they can't dry anything else correctly at the same time. If I had the space, I'd look into building a small dehumidifier kiln. The kits are not that expensive. But... got too many irons in the fire as it is.

 

[olyman]

irons in the fire??????? thought i was the only one!!!!!!!!!!!!! yohoho

 

[peter nap]

Thanks Rob, Anchorseal (parafin based I think) is better than latex paint if you have anchorseal. You're right, when you end seal logs/boards they do take a little longer to dry, but that's the whole idea. Drying to quickly is what causes checking and splitting.

I wonder if a careful kiln dry schedule done in a professional kiln by somebody that knows what they are doing would keep apple from twisting. I know some kilns around here that will dry for a fee, but it is often less expensive the more wood you have since all species have their own kiln schedule of heat/time cycles etc. Thus they don't want to tie down a kiln for just a couple hundred feet of apple if they can't dry anything else correctly at the same time. If I had the space, I'd look into building a small dehumidifier kiln. The kits are not that expensive. But... got too many irons in the fire as it is.

The year an inch may be an old wives tale but I have built traditional muzzleloaders for 20 years and have always used that schedule...and so does every traditionalist I know. It works.

Since you are building rifle stocks, you actually want it to twist if it wants to. Let it get it out of it's system. When dry, plane it flay before inletting.

There's a lot to be said about hundreds of years of tradition.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Thanks Rob, Anchorseal (parafin based I think) is better than latex paint if you have anchorseal. You're right, when you end seal logs/boards they do take a little longer to dry, but that's the whole idea. Drying to quickly is what causes checking and splitting.

I wonder if a careful kiln dry schedule done in a professional kiln by somebody that knows what they are doing would keep apple from twisting. I know some kilns around here that will dry for a fee, but it is often less expensive the more wood you have since all species have their own kiln schedule of heat/time cycles etc. Thus they don't want to tie down a kiln for just a couple hundred feet of apple if they can't dry anything else correctly at the same time. If I had the space, I'd look into building a small dehumidifier kiln. The kits are not that expensive. But... got too many irons in the fire as it is.

I ment sealing the wild grain on the blank sides may make it take longer to dry, but as you pointed out, that's the whole idea... I was saying it in relation to the drying times you quoted... (and your right on the "wives tail" of 1" per year)

Also A. Seal "is" wax base, so for just a few blanks, you could melt candles with a double boiler and use it..

As for using a kiln... Not a problem, but you need to find a kiln operator who knows what scredule to use, and happens to already have a load of wood going in that will also need that schedule...

Rob

 

[Sawyer Rob]

The year an inch may be an old wives tale but I have built traditional muzzleloaders for 20 years and have always used that schedule...and so does every traditionalist I know. It works.

Sure it works... So does 2, 3, or 4 years an inch... But the point is, most times they are dry in less than an inch a year...

Thinner lumber yet, dries much faster than most people would believe...

Rob

 

[woodshop]

The year an inch may be an old wives tale but I have built traditional muzzleloaders for 20 years and have always used that schedule...and so does every traditionalist I know. It works.

Since you are building rifle stocks, you actually want it to twist if it wants to. Let it get it out of it's system. When dry, plane it flay before inletting.

There's a lot to be said about hundreds of years of tradition.

Peter there is nothing at all wrong with traditional methods. If you're making truly authentic old rifles, you will be using the tools and methods they used back then. That can be a good thing. Thus if you want to let a piece of 2 inch thick gun stock set for two years because that's what they've been doing for couple hundred years, go for it. All I'm saying is if you took a moisture meter to that stock you would find that after about 6 months or so, the wood would reach equilibrium as far as taking in and giving off moisture. A that point if you check it every couple days you will find that on humid periods it will gain a little MC, and in dry periods it will lose some moisture content. I know this because I've proven it to myself. This might sound a bit anal, but wood and its properties are my hobby... I actually collect samples of wood from as many species as I can, I'm up to about 300 as we speak. Many times I've taken a short piece of wet lumber right off the mill and machined it to exactly 1 bd ft in my shop. I then took MC readings with my pinless Wagner and also weighed it on a digital scale every day or so for months and months keeping records, just to see what it actually does. I know this might sound like work to some, but it was pure fun for me. Came to some interesting conclusions from all that. Example, a short quartersawn butternut board milled in the fall, 1 x 6 x 24 (exactly 1 bd ft volume) will dry to equilibrium (around 10% MC where I am in PA in the fall) in a warm indoor shop in less than 6 weeks with little defects if you don't put it right next to a heater. A similar white pine board will be dry in about 15-20 days. Larger, longer thicker boards all stickered in a large pile outside take much longer of course, but again, almost none of my 5/4 (actually 1 1/8 inch) milled wood gets any dryer after about 6-7 months if continually checked with my meter. It either stays at the 15-20% MC it gets to outside OR if we have several weeks of humid wet weather, the boards will actually show a little MC INCREASE on the meter, because they are taking in that moisture from the air.

At any rate, not trying to refute your methods. Tradition can be good, just not always completely factual. They didn't have moisture meters back then, and a sure method of guaranteeing that the wood would be dry and stable enough was to let it set that long. Jump on the web and check out places like Woodweb... they have lots of info about both kiln drying and air drying wood and how long it takes for a particular species and thickness under different drying conditions. If you're interested in wood and it's properties, you will end up spending countless hours there as I often do.

 

[woodshop]

irons in the fire??????? thought i was the only one!!!!!!!!!!!!! yohoho

I know... seems like every time I try and pull one of those irons out I get hooked into something new and different that then wants a chunk of my time. I need to STOP and get better at a FEW things rather than taking on a new direction, no matter how interesting it seems. The Internet is a double edged sword in that regard. If you want to know a little more about something, start searching and clicking and before ya know it you've toasted a couple hours.

 

[peter nap]

Peter there is nothing at all wrong with traditional methods. If you're making truly authentic old rifles, you will be using the tools and methods they used back then. That can be a good thing. Thus if you want to let a piece of 2 inch thick gun stock set for two years because that's what they've been doing for couple hundred years, go for it. All I'm saying is if you took a moisture meter to that stock you would find that after about 6 months or so, the wood would reach equilibrium as far as taking in and giving off moisture. A that point if you check it every couple days you will find that on humid periods it will gain a little MC, and in dry periods it will lose some moisture content. I know this because I've proven it to myself. This might sound a bit anal, but wood and its properties are my hobby... I actually collect samples of wood from as many species as I can, I'm up to about 300 as we speak. Many times I've taken a short piece of wet lumber right off the mill and machined it to exactly 1 bd ft in my shop. I then took MC readings with my pinless Wagner and also weighed it on a digital scale every day or so for months and months keeping records, just to see what it actually does. I know this might sound like work to some, but it was pure fun for me. Came to some interesting conclusions from all that. Example, a short quartersawn butternut board milled in the fall, 1 x 6 x 24 (exactly 1 bd ft volume) will dry to equilibrium (around 10% MC where I am in PA in the fall) in a warm indoor shop in less than 6 weeks with little defects if you don't put it right next to a heater. A similar white pine board will be dry in about 15-20 days. Larger, longer thicker boards all stickered in a large pile outside take much longer of course, but again, almost none of my 5/4 (actually 1 1/8 inch) milled wood gets any dryer after about 6-7 months if continually checked with my meter. It either stays at the 15-20% MC it gets to outside OR if we have several weeks of humid wet weather, the boards will actually show a little MC INCREASE on the meter, because they are taking in that moisture from the air.

At any rate, not trying to refute your methods. Tradition can be good, just not always completely factual. They didn't have moisture meters back then, and a sure method of guaranteeing that the wood would be dry and stable enough was to let it set that long. Jump on the web and check out places like Woodweb... they have lots of info about both kiln drying and air drying wood and how long it takes for a particular species and thickness under different drying conditions. If you're interested in wood and it's properties, you will end up spending countless hours there as I often do.

I didn't mean to sound short, because your exactly right. I am not entirely convinced that allowing the wood to air dry per the inch a year, doesn't relieve some stress in the stock though.

Most commercial stock makers do kiln dry their lumber and they shoot fine if inletted properly.

My point was that the traditional methods work.

There are some traditions that don't do much more than cause work though. Did you know that a properly built rifle should have all the screw slots aligned with the axis of the bore?

Or that even with a modern barrel like a Mark DeHaas (The only ones I use) with 0 runout, the proof mark has to be mounted on the bottom. Mark doesn;t put a proof mark so I have to add one. There's a basis fof this on old barrels that do have runout.

 

[BIG JAKE]

Peter there is nothing at all wrong with traditional methods. If you're making truly authentic old rifles, you will be using the tools and methods they used back then. That can be a good thing. Thus if you want to let a piece of 2 inch thick gun stock set for two years because that's what they've been doing for couple hundred years, go for it. All I'm saying is if you took a moisture meter to that stock you would find that after about 6 months or so, the wood would reach equilibrium as far as taking in and giving off moisture. A that point if you check it every couple days you will find that on humid periods it will gain a little MC, and in dry periods it will lose some moisture content. I know this because I've proven it to myself. This might sound a bit anal, but wood and its properties are my hobby... I actually collect samples of wood from as many species as I can, I'm up to about 300 as we speak. Many times I've taken a short piece of wet lumber right off the mill and machined it to exactly 1 bd ft in my shop. I then took MC readings with my pinless Wagner and also weighed it on a digital scale every day or so for months and months keeping records, just to see what it actually does. I know this might sound like work to some, but it was pure fun for me. Came to some interesting conclusions from all that. Example, a short quartersawn butternut board milled in the fall, 1 x 6 x 24 (exactly 1 bd ft volume) will dry to equilibrium (around 10% MC where I am in PA in the fall) in a warm indoor shop in less than 6 weeks with little defects if you don't put it right next to a heater. A similar white pine board will be dry in about 15-20 days. Larger, longer thicker boards all stickered in a large pile outside take much longer of course, but again, almost none of my 5/4 (actually 1 1/8 inch) milled wood gets any dryer after about 6-7 months if continually checked with my meter. It either stays at the 15-20% MC it gets to outside OR if we have several weeks of humid wet weather, the boards will actually show a little MC INCREASE on the meter, because they are taking in that moisture from the air.

At any rate, not trying to refute your methods. Tradition can be good, just not always completely factual. They didn't have moisture meters back then, and a sure method of guaranteeing that the wood would be dry and stable enough was to let it set that long. Jump on the web and check out places like Woodweb... they have lots of info about both kiln drying and air drying wood and how long it takes for a particular species and thickness under different drying conditions. If you're interested in wood and it's properties, you will end up spending countless hours there as I often do.

No intent to hi-jack the thread, but I have some spruce tongue and groove as bundled from the mill. They come pretty wet and tend to dry out and then they can shrink back and sometimes show the nail holes. So I took three bundles of 8 sticks each at 1" X 6" X 16' and stickered them to get them stable quickly so I can install those. My question is will I get any discoloration on the milled surfaces from the dry pine stickers (they have not been in the sun)?

thks

 

[woodshop]

No intent to hi-jack the thread, but I have some spruce tongue and groove as bundled from the mill. They come pretty wet and tend to dry out and then they can shrink back and sometimes show the nail holes. So I took three bundles of 8 sticks each at 1" X 6" X 16' and stickered them to get them stable quickly so I can install those. My question is will I get any discoloration on the milled surfaces from the dry pine stickers (they have not been in the sun)?

thks

As long as the stickers are dry, and that spruce is not sopping wet, you should not get any sticker stain. However, you could get some boards drying to a different shade than others if you expose it to sunlight while drying like that. Just about ALL species will turn a different shade if exposed to direct sunlight than the boards stacked under it that are not exposed to the same amount of light. When air drying rough lumber no big deal, you run all of it through the planer/jointer anyway before use, but if this is finished lumber, another story. Keep it out of direct sunlight or some of that spruce will be a different shades depending on how much sunlight it got compared to other boards in the same stack.

 

[BIG JAKE]

As long as the stickers are dry, and that spruce is not sopping wet, you should not get any sticker stain. However, you could get some boards drying to a different shade than others if you expose it to sunlight while drying like that. Just about ALL species will turn a different shade if exposed to direct sunlight than the boards stacked under it that are not exposed to the same amount of light. When air drying rough lumber no big deal, you run all of it through the planer/jointer anyway before use, but if this is finished lumber, another story. Keep it out of direct sunlight or some of that spruce will be a different shades depending on how much sunlight it got compared to other boards in the same stack.

Thanks for the info Woodshop

 

[BobL]

. . . .A that point if you check it every couple days you will find that on humid periods it will gain a little MC, and in dry periods it will lose some moisture content. I know this because I've proven it to myself. This might sound a bit anal, but wood and its properties are my hobby.. . . . . . . .

Woodshop, IMHO not only is this not anal, it is exceedingly cool
Home science - should be more of it :rockn:

What some people sometimes get confused about is, just because a piece of wood is "dry" today doesn't necessarily mean it is thereafter stable. Some types of timber and even some individual bits of timber (which are normally stable) will pick up and lose more moisture than others leading to small but detectable dimensional changes.

Cheers