Best 24"-25" bar for MS460 Mag DP, and final tuning with tach?

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AxeAndAnvil

AxeAndAnvil

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Fixing up a 290 that needs a bar, and as it's gotten a full muffler mod and tune, and as I already wanted a longer bar for my 460, the 290 is getting the 20" off the 460, which I already have lots of loops for. I've got all the components on the way to change the worn star style 8T .325 sprocket on the 290 to a rim style 7T 3/8.

Question #1:
I'll be picking up or ordering the new 24" or 25" bar for the 460 this week, and was wondering what the best STIHL OEM bar in that size would be for heavy use in hardwoods, both felling and bucking.
I'm pretty sure I'll go with a STIHL bar, but I'm also interested to hear recommendations on any other cheaper brands of bars that y'all think are comparable in durability and function.

Question #2:
I put a nice aftermarket dual-port no-baffle muffler on the 460, and adjusted the carb by ear to the best of my abilities, but I have trouble hearing that 4-stroke "gurgle" that everyone talks about. And yes, I have gone through the tuning page on Madsen's. I have a good tach on the way though, and I was wondering if I could use it to get an optimal H carb setting on the 460 with DP MM. If so, what number should I shoot for? I've seen some guys saying that you still need to tune by ear, and if that's the case, it would still be nice to have an upper-end number to know to stay under. Are the numbers the same as a stock saw? I would also like to know the answer to these same questions applied to the 290.
 
I concur with the 13k above. I work on a lot of 1128s (460 and 440). I'm no expert at ear tuning but I get close and when I check with the tach it is always around 13k. However, tune a tad rich by ear i think and you might be able to go higher. 13 is safe though. I have heard of guys here with 460s tuned at and above 14k with porting and muffler mod. I need to get me one of those.

As to the bar, I would go with a Stihl ES. I would stay away from anything lighter weight myself as well. The heavier bars are more durable and great general purpose bars. LW bars are great for in tree work and ground work that tree services find themselves in frequently. I do not prefer them however and if was doing at home type work or acerage management I would want a standard bar.
 
I too run 20" and 25" both on 046. Your question is sure to bring out many opinions and preferences. If you want a Stihl bar, choices are standard ES and the Lightweight version 9(German) High quality. Total / Tsumura Superbars and the lightweight versions are very high quality (Japanese) I also picked up a Canon Superbar which I am very pleased with. Which bar is personal preference. Regardless, keep oiler turned up and sharp chains with proper tension.

Sent from my SM-T377P using Tapatalk
 
earlthegoat2 said:
I concur with the 13k above. I work on a lot of 1128s (460 and 440). I'm no expert at ear tuning but I get close and when I check with the tach it is always around 13k. However, tune a tad rich by ear i think and you might be able to go higher. 13 is safe though. I have heard of guys here with 460s tuned at and above 14k with porting and muffler mod. I need to get me one of those.

As to the bar, I would go with a Stihl ES. I would stay away from anything lighter weight myself as well. The heavier bars are more durable and great general purpose bars. LW bars are great for in tree work and ground work that tree services find themselves in frequently. I do not prefer them however and if was doing at home type work or acerage management I would want a standard bar.
Click to expand...
And the lightweight versions are more pricey.

Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk
 
Personally, my 460 with an enlarged single muffler outlet and Swiss cheesed baffle tuned pretty comfortably at 13,700. If I were you I'd try REALLY hard to train your ear on that burble sound. Ear muffs help, standing 20' away while someone else operates the saw helps too. Once you learn what to listen for, you'll be a better, safer operator.

It should be very easy to hear if you put the saw on the ground, put your carb screwdriver on the H jet, and fiddle with it at WOT. Of course it's crucially important that you trim the limiter tabs on the carb screws. After they're gone, set the screw one turn out from gently seated. While it's running WOT, turn it counter clockwise (richer) and listen for the RPMs to drop. Then turn it clockwise (leaner) and listen for the RPMs to increase. Keep going until the saw "screams," which is to say that it stops 4-stroking. Then richen it back up. Play with that a couple times for your ear to get accustomed to the sound.

When you are running a saw, it's important to listen for that sound periodically. If I'm going to be working a saw hard, making long cuts for example, after the first big cut I hold the saw at WOT out of the wood and listen for the sound that tells me the saw is safe. Then midway through a cut I'll lift up on the saw and listen for it there to. It's very important to recognize the sound, and once you're used to it it's unmistakeable.

Regarding bars, personally I much prefer a 28" bar on that size saw. It's only a little heavier, but allows me to actually reach the ground with the tip of the bar, which a 20" does not. If I had a 290 and a 460 as my two main saws, I'd probably keep a 16" 3/8 bar on the 290 and a 20" 3/8 bar on the 460. When a bigger bar was needed I'd toss on the 28". But that's just my situation. I use a 20" bar a lot, so keeping it on a saw with plenty of HP makes me happy. A 20" on the 290 will be okay, but if it's the size you use most, put it on a fun saw. That said, if you're convinced that a 24" is the way to go, I have a stihl ES bar and many loops of chains that I've been meaning to list for sale. Bar is used, but not much. I think I've got 3-4 loops of new Oregon full chisel, and a couple of loops of Stihl chain, at least one is reduced-kickback, but I think the rest are yellow label. PM me if you're interested.
 
Ryan'smilling said:
Personally, my 460 with an enlarged single muffler outlet and Swiss cheesed baffle tuned pretty comfortably at 13,700. If I were you I'd try REALLY hard to train your ear on that burble sound. Ear muffs help, standing 20' away while someone else operates the saw helps too. Once you learn what to listen for, you'll be a better, safer operator.

It should be very easy to hear if you put the saw on the ground, put your carb screwdriver on the H jet, and fiddle with it at WOT. Of course it's crucially important that you trim the limiter tabs on the carb screws. After they're gone, set the screw one turn out from gently seated. While it's running WOT, turn it counter clockwise (richer) and listen for the RPMs to drop. Then turn it clockwise (leaner) and listen for the RPMs to increase. Keep going until the saw "screams," which is to say that it stops 4-stroking. Then richen it back up. Play with that a couple times for your ear to get accustomed to the sound.

When you are running a saw, it's important to listen for that sound periodically. If I'm going to be working a saw hard, making long cuts for example, after the first big cut I hold the saw at WOT out of the wood and listen for the sound that tells me the saw is safe. Then midway through a cut I'll lift up on the saw and listen for it there to. It's very important to recognize the sound, and once you're used to it it's unmistakeable.

Regarding bars, personally I much prefer a 28" bar on that size saw. It's only a little heavier, but allows me to actually reach the ground with the tip of the bar, which a 20" does not. If I had a 290 and a 460 as my two main saws, I'd probably keep a 16" 3/8 bar on the 290 and a 20" 3/8 bar on the 460. When a bigger bar was needed I'd toss on the 28". But that's just my situation. I use a 20" bar a lot, so keeping it on a saw with plenty of HP makes me happy. A 20" on the 290 will be okay, but if it's the size you use most, put it on a fun saw. That said, if you're convinced that a 24" is the way to go, I have a stihl ES bar and many loops of chains that I've been meaning to list for sale. Bar is used, but not much. I think I've got 3-4 loops of new Oregon full chisel, and a couple of loops of Stihl chain, at least one is reduced-kickback, but I think the rest are yellow label. PM me if you're interested.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the input. I do intend to learn the sounds of tuning a saw- I'm on my way, just not super confident yet. On bars, a 16" 3/8 bar is exactly what I eventually want on the 290. And we have a near-new 36" bar on the farm that I can and do use on the rare occasion I need a really long bar. I thought about a 28", but I'm worried it would be a bit much. So, with 20" and 36" 3/8 bars on hand, and wanting something in between, I thought I'd get a 24" now, stick the 20" on the 290, and pick up a 16" later after my wallet stops smarting. :nofunny:
 
Oh, and I do like the 20" pretty good- I've been logging and cutting firewood almost exclusively with one for 10 years- first on an 044, then the 460. I just feel like I'd like a couple more inches. I did really want a 16" on the 290, though.
 
Sounds like a good plan. I also happen to have a Stihl E bar in 16" 3/8 with very light use. And a couple of RS chains to go with it. One new, one lightly used. If you're interested in a package deal, maybe we can work something out. :)
 
Thanks for all the input, guys. A nice fella hooked me up with a package deal on 3 used STIHL bars (2-16" and 1-24") and several chains of each size. Cant wait to try them out!
 

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