Hot Water Heater Update , Pics , Temps , Need Imput!!! Indoor Wood Furnace

[toolhawk]

Ok here it is , was able to pick up a new hot water tank that had the controls smashed for free at the local hardware store , I got it all hooked up seems to be in working order , has temp gauge , pressure gauge , all for saftey and its great to beable to see the actuals and not guessing!!! ,Made my manifold for inside the heat chamber , (this could be to large in diameter )

City water come in at 40 degrees , tank will maintain 80 degrees all day (I want more heat ) so basicly I am putting 80 degree water in to my natural gas water tank , NOT 40 DEGREE WATER !! , but I would like to see 100- 120- !!!! thinking about using a coil inside chamber instead of what I have ? Or slow down circulation pump by adding a valve be for pump and restircting flow!!!!!! PLEASE GIVE YOUR IMPUT !!!!!! SO FAR YOU GUYS HAVE BEEN GREAT!!

SEE UPDATED PICS , WATER INPUT TEMP, FURNACE AIR TEMP,WATER TEMP, PICS OF HOOK UP

 

[highpower]

I think I would open the outer shell on the water heater closest to the wood heater and take out the insulation. Looks like you are trying to heat the water through the insulation?

 

[toolhawk]

pics of inside heat chamber with water plunbing

This is what I am running water through , this is located inside heat chamber

 

[PA Plumber]

Are you using the T & P opening to circulate water? Is the modified T & P on a water heater tank used for storage or does that tank acutally heat water also?

Just curious, if things would happen to shut down (no circulation) and the water heater with the modified T & P overheats, your T & P won't be effective with the probe that far away from the tank. If that tank is storage only, it's not quite as big a deal as long as there is another T & P valve correctly installed in the other water heater tank.

 

[toolhawk]

?????

1st ,yes there is a t&p on the original tank , 2nd , yes I am using the original t&p outlet hole for circulation , why would that t&p not work ? , I have a pressure gauge right there it shows 56 psi so its seeing pressure so if it exceeded the t&p it would blow (yes ????)

 

[drmiller100]

i'm a little puzzled as to what we are looking at.

there is a firebox somewhere where you burn wood.

It sounds like you are using an old hot water heater as a heat exchanger.

the last pics you sent. Are they the heat exhanger, or the firebox???

If they are in the firebox, you need a LOT more surface area. make a bunch more coils, more volume is a good thing, feel free to weld angle to the pipes to increase surface area.

feel free to run a LOT larger pipe to increase surface area, and slow down the water.
what is the temp of the water going into and out of the firebox? What is the temp of the water going into and out of the heat exchanger on the firebox side?

 

[toolhawk]

I think you right,

I think your on the right track more suface area for the water to come into contact with, the pic is of the water system that is in the heat chamber of the wood furnace , it shows it with the side of the furnace removed for instulation

 

[PA Plumber]

1st ,yes there is a t&p on the original tank , 2nd , yes I am using the original t&p outlet hole for circulation , why would that t&p not work ? , I have a pressure gauge right there it shows 56 psi so its seeing pressure so if it exceeded the t&p it would blow (yes ????)

150 lbs. is the norm for pressure release. There is a probe on the T/P for temperature also. If the system would stop circulating, your probe does not go into the tank far enough to get a true reading of the tank temp. This would allow the tank to get way too hot before the probe could sense it and release. As long as the water is circulating, this is not an issue because the probe is in the stream of the circulated water.

I happen to be a service agent for A.O. Smith water heaters and I tend to notice this sort of stuff. If you are on city water, more points to ponder with this system come up. If you have a well, the pressure tank should act as an expansion tank and will help with expansion issues.

 

[toolhawk]

expansion tank??????

so if I added a expansion tank that would be a little insurane policy!!!! is that what I am hearing ? I am on city water but I did pick up a new expansion tank this summer at garage sale and it just sitting in the garage . Thanks just doing some 3 stooges experimenting:hmm3grin2orange:

 

[PA Plumber]

Fahrenheit will be our temp scale.

This is from the A.O. Smith Svc. Information Guide:
"Water expands, when heated, approx. .00023% per degree F temperature Rise.
This expansion will result in a "closed" system. Water confined to a storage tank or piping system will, when subjected to a temperature rise of 10 deg. F (increasing from 75 deg F to 85 deg F) increase in pressure from 50 psi to 250 psi."

If you are heating from 40 deg F to 120 deg F you effectively have an 80 deg. F rise. If there is 100 gallons of water in the "hot" part of the system it will expand 1.84 %, or almost 2 gallons. If you do not have a place for the water to expand, it will push out the T & P in the form of pressure until the pressure and the expansion area needed equalize.

In short, if you have a check valve near the meter, you definitely need an expansion tank.

For what you are doing, I would get at least a 4 1/2 gallon tank. The one you have may work, just check the pressure and make sure it has at least 54 lbs of pressure in the bladder before installation. There should be a sticker on the tank to let you know max. allowable operating pressure and temp. Please make sure it can be used for potable water systems or it will make your hot water a nice rusty brown color.

 

[drmiller100]

ok, so maybe i'm missnig something still.
you have a wood fire. Next to the wood fire is a "heat chamber", in which you have that one loop going down and back up?????

if so, all I can say is WOW that is inefficient. You must be burning a TON of wood and getting almost nothing out of it.

if it were me, i would consider filling the entire space with tubing. Run the cold to the bottom, then letting it come up with through a bunch of tubing, all in parallel.

think of a huge radiator just like in the front of your pickup, but make the tubes vertical not horizontal.

if you can find old commercial air conditioning condensors, they would work. Leave the fins on.

You will then have problems with your water getting too hot.

 

[PA Plumber]

ok, so maybe i'm missnig something still.
you have a wood fire. Next to the wood fire is a "heat chamber", in which you have that one loop going down and back up?????

if so, all I can say is WOW that is inefficient. You must be burning a TON of wood and getting almost nothing out of it.

if it were me, i would consider filling the entire space with tubing. Run the cold to the bottom, then letting it come up with through a bunch of tubing, all in parallel.

think of a huge radiator just like in the front of your pickup, but make the tubes vertical not horizontal.

if you can find old commercial air conditioning condensors, they would work. Leave the fins on.

You will then have problems with your water getting too hot.

If the woostove is used for heat anyway, any help to heating the water will be a savings.

The principle of the condensor coil is a good one. Actual practice would require a thorough cleaning. I sure wouldn't want oil introduced into my potable water source.

Why not consider regular radiant heating sections? They are type "M" copper thin wall with the fins attached. Just need some sections soldered together. This would also keep from introducting compressor oil to the potable water system.

I think your idea is a good one toolhawk. It looks like your still in the development phase and I commend you on trying to make this work. I am sure you are aware of the possiblily of a circulating pump shutdown. If the water can't move through the system it could be very bad news. I'm sure you know to keep the saftey mechanisms in place and to be careful.