Recreating Down. DUH!

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Joined
Feb 6, 2007
Messages
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Location
Warshington
This has been circulating in the news from time to time. Decommission the roads, let the remaining roads go to pot, require reservations to control spontaneity, charge a fee just to stop and gape, and they think nothing will happen? Duh....


National Forest visitors down, no one knows why
By JEFF BARNARD
ASSOCIATED PRESS WRITER


In this file photo taken Dec. 7, 2005, Erik Fernandez of the conservation group OregonWild crosses Roaring River on the Mount Hood National Forest near Estacada, Ore. After enjoying rising numbers of visitors in the decades following World War II, national forests are seeing a decline in recent years. (AP Photo/Rick Bowmer, File)


GRANTS PASS, Ore. -- In the years after World War II, Americans packed up their young families and Army surplus camping gear and headed into the national forests to hunt, fish, and hike. Going to the woods was part of what it meant to be an American.

Today, however, visits to the national forests are off 13 percent.

Top officials at the U.S. Forest Service blame it on circumstances outside their control - rising gas prices, the popularity of video games and the Internet, and an increasingly urban and aging population less inclined to camp out.

Critics focus on fees charged for hiking trails and visitor centers, a proliferation of noisy off-road vehicles and the declining proportion of the Forest Service budget dedicated to recreation.

James Johnston, a policy analyst with Forest Service Employees for Environmental Ethics in Eugene, spent the last year camping out in 67 national forests and talking to 400 people. He concluded that while fewer people may be using the woods, fewer trails and campgrounds are open and there are more people riding noisy off-road vehicles.

"They think that it's harder to find solitude," he said of the people he talked to.

Coupled with the decline in visits to national parks, the trend makes nature lovers nervous at a time when the growing global population and climate change pose huge threats to wild places.

"We only value what we know and what we love," said Richard Louv, author of "The Last Child in the Woods." "Where is the political constituency going to come from if all those trends continue - disinvestment in facilities, lack of diversity, the disconnect between children and nature?"

If young people and the growing Hispanic population don't fill in for the aging white Baby Boomers who have long made up the vast majority of national forest visitors, what will that mean for the future?

"That is the big question," said Thomas More, a research forester with the U.S. Forest Service Northern Research Station in Burlington, Vt. "Is it going to be a future of hiking or is it fancy cafes and city kinds of things? That's what we're trying to evaluate right now. And the information is mixed, frankly."

The national forests date to 1891, when Congress authorized reserves to protect forests from cut-and-run logging. The system has grown to 155 national forests covering 190 million acres.

Though they were always used for recreation, there was no legal recognition of that role until the Multiple Use Act of 1960, said James G. Lewis, historian for the Forest History Society in Durham, N.C.

The Forest Service didn't conduct a statistically rigorous survey of visitation until 2000. That National Visitor Use Monitoring program found 204.8 million visitors annually in the period 2000-2003 and 178.6 million for 2003-2007 - a decline of 13 percent. When compared to the rising population, the proportion of Americans visiting national forests is falling even faster.

More said the decline appears to have started in the 1980s, during the Reagan administration, when the Forest Service became much more interested in logging than recreation.

"Remember Reagan's famous quote about if you've seen one redwood you've seen them all?" More said.

The Endangered Species Act slowed logging in the 1990s, demanding more habitat for the northern spotted owl and other wildlife. Without the revenue from timber, the Forest Service got Congress in 1996 to allow fees for trails and other amenities.

Scott Silver, executive director of Wild Wilderness in Bend, sees a strong correlation between the imposition of fees and declining visits.

"They raised the fees, and people stopped coming," Silver said. "The theory of supply and demand, price and elasticity was proven. Now that they've seen demand drop, they're saying `Oh my goodness, we've got to figure out how to increase visitation.'"

Top Forest Service officials reject Silver's assertion about fees. Although their surveys don't address the question, they attribute the decline primarily to the older and more urbanized population, and increasing popularity of electronic entertainment and to rising gas prices.

"For families of modest means with large vehicles who have got to travel large distances, even the prices of two and three years ago were starting to cut into the recreation opportunity," said Mark Rey, undersecretary of agriculture in charge of the Forest Service.

"We are seeing less participation in overnight camping than the quick day trips," said Forest Service recreation director Jim Bedwell.

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Well, there was a bit of a consumption-gear tech- fad that went with the latest surge of outdoorsyism. $14 waterbottles, heck, lets put the whole dayhike outfit in at about $550 for the package, not to mention the vehicle necessary to drive into this graded gravel adventure territory. So, that consumption fulfills some lack of spirituality or something. But, since it was sold to us as part of the outdoor life, everyone had to go outdoors. But now that everyone has done every 2 1/2 mile FS loop or top roped some heavily chalked walkup, and discovered that its really the shopping they were in to, not the experience it supposedly availed, most I guess just wear the crap to the coffee shop, perhaps now adapting to the latest in shiek, adventure urbanism. Hope it don't get too lonely out there for you.
 
I have never had anyone answer, why we have to pay to be in the woods.

This year hunting I had, on two occasions warnings for being parked without a whatever they call it permit to be in the woods. I have never had/bought a permit nor will I ever have/buy a permit. That is what keeps me from being found in the brush. Generally where we go the "forest rangers" dare not go cause the eveil forest gnomes might get them.

Getting out with your kids these days seems to draw a responce of inconvienience from parents. The vast majority of the dads I work with get there kids game machinesd and what not, so they are not bothered while they are in front of the television. A couple months back I taught a survival coarse for the men and boys of our church. Out of the 14 dads that have boys 2 showed up for this event. However 12 tried to drop their kids off for the weekend. The reason "I don't need to know this stuff but it would be nice if junior cuold take care of himself should the need arise".

I think that above anything else we have our selves in a society of panty waisted men that them selves are afraid of the big bad booogerman. That then directly rubs off and sinks into todays youth. Many of the LL Bean, Colman, REI types like the thought of being out but are petrified of what they think that means when the time comes. Try getting one of these people out in the brush after sunset, then see what happens. I think you would have an easier time separating an old sow grizzly from her cubs.

Then you run into the portable meth stations. These are real fun to run into. Those folks are some of the strangest people you will ever find. Pots farms and their guards, traps and trip wires, 5th wheel whore houses, squatters and plain old vandals and repribates. Unless we are way out and back in slim chance even then, you will never ever under any circumstance find me or my family unarmed.

I have a special rig I use while hunting or working on the brush when I will be away from my ride for extended time or distance, no glass, doors, trunk lid, radio nothing. The hood is there and spot welded shut to keep the theives/scrappers away from my engine so I can get home. Two years ago we used a stripped bug like this and when we got back three day later after packing in the had used a saw to cut the pilars and take the top of the car.

Cost, panty waisted society, safety. Those are the draw backs and reasons of not having any enjoyment of our public lands. Or being able to have any enjoyment of our public lands.

That is my take on what has happened to outdoor visitation in the past 15 years or so.

That said I still and will continue to take my family out to the woods. Only we do it at times and in places where bad things have very little chance of going on. One of our favorites is a week trip in the snow camping, packed in by a stream and high lake. Not many are going to go that far to do bad things. We are dropped off and picked up for vehicle safety. An EPIRB keeps the safety contact should an emergency arise.



Owl
 
I have never had anyone answer, why we have to pay to be in the woods.

This year hunting I had, on two occasions warnings for being parked without a whatever they call it permit to be in the woods. I have never had/bought a permit nor will I ever have/buy a permit. That is what keeps me from being found in the brush. Generally where we go the "forest rangers" dare not go cause the eveil forest gnomes might get them.

Getting out with your kids these days seems to draw a responce of inconvienience from parents. The vast majority of the dads I work with get there kids game machinesd and what not, so they are not bothered while they are in front of the television. A couple months back I taught a survival coarse for the men and boys of our church. Out of the 14 dads that have boys 2 showed up for this event. However 12 tried to drop their kids off for the weekend. The reason "I don't need to know this stuff but it would be nice if junior cuold take care of himself should the need arise".

I think that above anything else we have our selves in a society of panty waisted men that them selves are afraid of the big bad booogerman. That then directly rubs off and sinks into todays youth. Many of the LL Bean, Colman, REI types like the thought of being out but are petrified of what they think that means when the time comes. Try getting one of these people out in the brush after sunset, then see what happens. I think you would have an easier time separating an old sow grizzly from her cubs.

Then you run into the portable meth stations. These are real fun to run into. Those folks are some of the strangest people you will ever find. Pots farms and their guards, traps and trip wires, 5th wheel whore houses, squatters and plain old vandals and repribates. Unless we are way out and back in slim chance even then, you will never ever under any circumstance find me or my family unarmed.

I have a special rig I use while hunting or working on the brush when I will be away from my ride for extended time or distance, no glass, doors, trunk lid, radio nothing. The hood is there and spot welded shut to keep the theives/scrappers away from my engine so I can get home. Two years ago we used a stripped bug like this and when we got back three day later after packing in the had used a saw to cut the pilars and take the top of the car.

Cost, panty waisted society, safety. Those are the draw backs and reasons of not having any enjoyment of our public lands. Or being able to have any enjoyment of our public lands.

That is my take on what has happened to outdoor visitation in the past 15 years or so.

That said I still and will continue to take my family out to the woods. Only we do it at times and in places where bad things have very little chance of going on. One of our favorites is a week trip in the snow camping, packed in by a stream and high lake. Not many are going to go that far to do bad things. We are dropped off and picked up for vehicle safety. An EPIRB keeps the safety contact should an emergency arise.



Owl

well said
 
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