Slow Cycle time on splitter

[wb1]

Hey all,

I have a 25 ton MTD / Yard Machines splitter that's about 9 years old. Over the last year I've noticed the cycle times are getting pretty long.....it still has plenty of power (Split a bunch of Elm the other day & never stalled it) but it's just moving painfully slow.......new the cycle time was probably in the 15 second area (from memory) now it's probably 24 seconds:censored:

Any suggestions on what might be causing this - recently changed the filter so I know that's not it & based on the power I'm thinking it's not the pump???
Hydraulic fluid has not been changed in a while but I check it periodically & it's very clean & seems to have "normal" viscosity.

BTW - it has a 6HP Briggs & according to the specs the pump is an 11GPM.

I'm considering replacing the pump with a 13 GPM (@ 9 years it's days are probably numbered anyway) however it uses a three hole mount pattern & all the aftermarket ones I've found are 4 hole. I'm still heavily into splitting next year's wood so I really don't want to do a big tear-down & fabricate a new mounting plate so I'm hoping the "Hydraulic Gurus" around here have another suggestion as to what the problem might be.

Thanks in advance for your input!

 

[thejdman04]

Hey all,

I have a 25 ton MTD / Yard Machines splitter that's about 9 years old. Over the last year I've noticed the cycle times are getting pretty long.....it still has plenty of power (Split a bunch of Elm the other day & never stalled it) but it's just moving painfully slow.......new the cycle time was probably in the 15 second area (from memory) now it's probably 24 seconds:censored:

Any suggestions on what might be causing this - recently changed the filter so I know that's not it & based on the power I'm thinking it's not the pump???
Hydraulic fluid has not been changed in a while but I check it periodically & it's very clean & seems to have "normal" viscosity.

BTW - it has a 6HP Briggs & according to the specs the pump is an 11GPM.

I'm considering replacing the pump with a 13 GPM (@ 9 years it's days are probably numbered anyway) however it uses a three hole mount pattern & all the aftermarket ones I've found are 4 hole. I'm still heavily into splitting next year's wood so I really don't want to do a big tear-down & fabricate a new mounting plate so I'm hoping the "Hydraulic Gurus" around here have another suggestion as to what the problem might be.

Thanks in advance for your input!

It could be a piece of crud somehow got into your valve, it could be internal leakage within the cylinder (fluid is getting past the rings on the pistion in the splitter).

 

[wb1]

Thanks for your input JD - I'll take the valve off & blow it out with the air compressor.

How would I go about checking the seals in the cylinder? The ram isn't oily but I guess you could have leakage without oil getting on the ram.

 

[thejdman04]

Thanks for your input JD - I'll take the valve off & blow it out with the air compressor.

How would I go about checking the seals in the cylinder? The ram isn't oily but I guess you could have leakage without oil getting on the ram.

Inside the cylinder theres a pistion much like in a car or chainsaw etc. If the oil gets past the piston and seals, instead of pushing the ram it sneaks past the piston and seals and goes onto the opposite side of the piston and goes to the return or actually fights the piston and tries to push it backwards(returning.)

 

[avalancher]

Also take a peek at your wedge if you have a wedge on the ram.Mine got a nice piece of oak wedged under it last year and really slowed the travel time.Took me a few minutes to realize that is where the problem was.It was wedged on the side, between the ram and the side of the rails.did the same thing you described, slow travel time but still grunted through some nasty crotches.

 

[tomtrees58]

do you have a Hy filter on it tom trees

 

[mga]

start with a gauge on the pressure side.

 

[boda65]

Is it a two stage pump? It could be sticking in the high pressure/low volume mode. You might also check the suction strainer in the tank, if it has one. Not likely, because if it were getting plugged it would starve the pump and probably make it a little noisy. But something to check and eliminate anyways.

 

[wb1]

Thanks everyone for your replys.

Regarding the Filter - I might start there, my brother & I own this together & he replaced the filter......thinking he got it at the Auto parts store so maybe it's not rated for 11 GPM flow?? This might be part of the problem but I do remember it slowing down some prior to the filter change.

Regarding the Wedge & Ram - good point but it's clear of debris.

Regarding the Pump - no idea if it's a two-stage & of course there's no mention of it in the manual. Even went to MTD's website & looked at the schematic & parts list & they only spec 11 GPM but I can buy a new one from them for a mere $638.00:jawdrop: Who are they kidding??

Well I guess it's time to take the valve off, blow it out & head to NAPA for a new filter - will post back later today with the results!

 

[computeruser]

Good suggestions. Check that stuff out and report back.

My guess - it sounds like the 2-stage pump picked the one stage it likes best...

 

[wb1]

Well I can rule-out the filter......called my brother & he bought it @ TSC, checked the specs on their website (it's a Cross 25 Micron) & it's rated at 20 GPM capacity.

I'm afraid it just might be the pump.....normally not a big deal but MTD decided to use a three bolt pattern for the mount so any after market pump I buy will requier some mods to attach as all the ones I've seen are 4 bolt pattern.

As far as it being the inner seals leaking......if this was the case wouldn't you see some fluid on the shaft?? Just wondering if I can rule that out without having to buy a pressure gauge.

 

[mga]

pressure gauge is 15 bucks. oil filled too.

i would have ruled out the filter from the start. even if it was clogged or too small, the by-pass would have allowed the oil to run free.

if the cylinder was leaking from the seals, you would notice it bogging down or even stopping when splitting. if it was leaking so bad that it actually slowed down the cycle time, i doubt you'd be able to split anything.

the pressure gauge will tell you if the pump is doing its job. mount the gauge where the hi-pressure line meets your control valve.

check out Northern Tools dual stage pumps or check out ebay for any deals.

 

[AKKAMAAN]

If pump is worned (internal leakage) it should catch higher temperture faster than the rest of the system, same thing with cylinder and valve.....slow cycle= oil by passing internally, either pump, valve or cylinder. By passing oil under pressure is making heat instead of work...

Try to run some hard work (cycling with higher pressure, not stalling) with the splitter, from scracth (cold), and and monitor (hands on) temperature...in winter time when snow is available, I use a little of snow to see where it starts melting fast.....an ice cube can work to...

Also make sure you can make a full lever stroke with your op valve 3/8-1/2"...

 

[triptester]

Your pump is a 11 gpm 2-stage from the info you have given so far. The spring for the high volume/low pressure section by-pass could be broken keeping the pump from going into full flow.

If you could post a pic we might be able to provide more info.

Jerry

 

[wb1]

Update - checked the detent valve & everything is good there.

Split some wood today & timed the cycle both cold (initial start-up) & after running / splitting for about 45 minutes.....both came out to 21 seconds.......running a 24" stroke on the ram.

One thing I forgot to mention earlier but was reminded of after splitting today - sometimes when the ram builds up pressure (when first contacting a knot or getting into a real twisted piece of wood) I hear a high pitched "whirl" briefly. I wear hearing protection so it's hard to tell how "high pitched" it really is or where exactly it's coming from but I have noticed it a few times....it's not constant more "here & there" I guess.

MGA - thanks for the info on the gauge. I was thinking the same thing oin the the cylinder seals (probably have some indication like oil on shaft, little to no power, etc.) so my simple thinking is why bother getting a gage & hooking it up because if we rule out the seals & detent valve what other than the pump could it be??? Admittedly I'm not to "up" on Hydraulics so if I'm missing something here please please feel free to point it out.

AKKAMAAN - I read your post after splitting today, I'll fire it up again tomorrow & check by hand-feel if the pump is getting hotter than the cylinder and/or valve.

Tripster / Jerry- where did you find the info regarding 2 stage pump?? Not doubting you but I've been searching the Internet for these details with no luck so curious about your resource for future reference.

Regarding a pic - you want one of the pump??


At this point I'm thinking I'll just buy a new pump from Northern....maybe the pump is the problem or maybe it's only part of the problem but after 9 years of splitting (both my brother & I use it and a few friends have borrowed it) it's seen it's share of hardwoods so the pump is probably on it's last legs anyway. Bottom line I don't feel like I'm wasting money on a new one I guess....at least that's how I've rationalized it to myself LOL!!

Now the question is upgrade to a 13.6GPM or stick with the 11 GPM?? Running a 6HP Briggs so it can handle a 13.6 but it's certainly at the max end. Curious if there would be much difference in cycle times between the two??

 

[ericjeeper]

Heck fire that ain't all that slow.

My 28 ton splitter brand new was 19 seconds.

 

[wb1]

My 28 ton splitter brand new was 19 seconds.

Yeah some of them are in that range but I remember mine being around 14 - 15 seconds. Sure my memory isn't the best anymore (price you pay for a misspent youth LOL) so I can't say for sure what the exact time was but I defiantly have noticed it's moving much slower than it used to.

Pretty frustrating when you just want to crank-out the work & the machine doesn't share the same enthusiasm

 

[triptester]

wb1,

I have not been able to find a great deal of info on 2-stage pumps but here is what I have found.

The first link is for MTE pumps.

http://www.mtehydraulics.com/oemprod_2stagepumps.html

The attachment is for Barnes pumps page 5 and page 6 shows AC motor requirements.

 

[wb1]

wb1,

I have not been able to find a great deal of info on 2-stage pumps but here is what I have found.

The first link is for MTE pumps.

http://www.mtehydraulics.com/oemprod_2stagepumps.html

The attachment is for Barnes pumps page 5 and page 6 shows AC motor requirements.

Thanks Triptester. Actually I was wondering where you got the info on the OEM pump for my machine. Anyway thanks for your info - I'm leaning towards a Haldex from Northern Tool - price looks pretty good!

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200321053_200321053?cm_vc=C5503

Well folks when I get receive it (placing order tomorrow) I'll post back with the results.

 

[triptester]

You mentioned a high pitched noise when the pump started to strain, this could be caused by slippage of the coupling between engine and pump.

I believe the older models came with MTE pumps, than they switch to Haldex/ Barnes. Lately I have noticed some of the various splitter manufacturers are going back to MTE.

If you would consider a MTE pump check the prices at Dalton under log splitter parts


http://stores.daltonhydraulic.com/-strse-Logsplitter-Parts/Categories.bok