Still thinking?

[Oxman]

Kong Frog
This fun new toy allows the climber to snag a D ring or other anchor like lightning with this quick acting biner replacement. Release it by squeezing the sides of the clamp.

Here's the adjustable daisy by Yates:

Can we really absorb more gadgets? I wonder how these will be applied by arborists?

 

[Oxman]

Saw lanyard

Here's a better pic of the Yates adjustable daisy. It would make a great saw strap. It's good for 1,500 pounds. Let's see, it would take about 6 weeks to thrash that.......

Check it out at Yates Gear

 

[treeclimber165]

The problem with the vast majority of these toys is that they must be toted along while doing what we are PAID to do, which is trim the tree. When I'm working, I want the tools I NEED with me. I am not into carrying around tons of extra gadgets if they are not going to justify their bulk with increased productivity. All those extra fancy snaps and gadgets tend to get snagged on limbs unless you are doing a typical 'raise and gut' job. I need to pick my way through a lot of tight spots and having lots of long straps hanging off my belt is a pain.

Neat to look at, but best used for recreational rock climbing where they can be played with. Not in a tree where they will get snagged on limbs and slow me down. I'm not badmouthing all new gadgets. My Pantin is one of my favorite gadgets. It increases my productivity and mobility and doesn't get in my way. It has no loose straps flapping 12" off my belt to snag on anything.

That first item cannot be rated for personal support, either. I wouldn't hang my life on it.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

I don't use the word toys any more, they're all tools to me.

When Climb As had the Frog at TCI a few years ago, we were all oohing and ahhing. So far, no arbo has found a practical use. In rock climbing it hasn't found wide use either. Both rope worlds agree though, it is one of the coolest tools made, now we have to find a use for it

There are lots of tools in other Working Rope disciplines that have uses for arbos. Having an open mind is probably the best tool. I believe there'll come a day when arbos get off of DdRT and start to work on SRT all of the time. The Petzl I'D makes this possible right now.

Tom

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Originally posted by Tom Dunlap
Having an open mind is probably the best tool.

Some years back i got some karabs and slings from Sherrill (of course), then some CMI pulleys. i hardly ever used them, cuz calculating their worthiness always had to honestly reflect the amount of time watching someone wander across the yard to go to the wrong place, llight a cig, wander to were they were wander back, send up slowly etc. At some point i decided that i was going to carry some slings then later a pulley up with me, because i had figured out that i would use them more and come up with more uses for them in doing so. Then after some success with this i developped the idea, that i was going to war, that these were my tools, that were of universal/modular design for their tasks. Who's uses were only limited by my image-i-nation (which can actually be quite a scary place!!). i now use slings and karabs for everything and the list still grows, sliding pulleys in and out when needed. This can't be said about all tools we see, but i believe in turning something over in my head and hand and giving it a try every once in a while.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

One thing I learned the hard way is that it is bezst to use steel karabs with the pullies, or you will wear grooves into the aluminum.

I have a lot of gear that I do not use all that often. Add to the bag a little at a time, then get another bag and devide the stuff up. I started out with everything heavy load tolerant, then started getting light stuff.

Now I make all my light rigging slings from 3/8 Tenex and have a lot of them. with a 600# SWL I can do a lot of dynamic rigging (non-shock load) with these. By the time I get over that weight I would rather do a high-strength tieoff (HS/TO
) anyways. Pullies I use tenex loops and loopies so you can get 1200#SWL with that, and the blocks I still use the 5/8 deadeyes.

I found to look at the roep size rating after buying 2 Petzl rescue pullies, they are 13mm max


I've used my Gri-gri to belay retrievable blocks for doing light picks with the winch. I'll mix climbing and rigging gear when I'm doing the work and know the loads will be dynamic, or negigable.

Lors of small non locking karabs for simple speedline (zipline) applications.

The one problem with having a lot of stuff an one pickup is that the Brownian movement makes it hard to find stuff when needed.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

After talking with Paolo at TCI and reading his biner [krab] article, I have confirmed my standard to use steel for rigging and aluminum for climbing.

Tom

 

[Eric E.]

I have piles of gear. Some of it gets used alot and some rarely. I try to take only what I need up the tree to avoid hang ups etc.. Alot of people think that it's foolish but it sure is nice to have that thing that is just what you needed in that special situation. All the gear provides you with options, the key is not to waste to much time thinking of options.

I remember a few years ago some guy ragging on Tom D. about lots of gear. This guy said something like with all that gear you must need a seperate truck. Tom's reply was something like ..."actually I have a van for my gear". That was when I started to like Tom.

 

[Tree Machine]

Freaks, you're gear FREAKS!

I too, am a gearhead. If I can't find the gear, I make it. That's how new gear comes into our field.... guys like us who love gear and advance the science of it.
I'm a sling freak. I love them. John Paul made me buy a 7/16" Tenex sling at the TCI show. I've tried So many different types of climbing slings over the years. All different lengths, different materials, and have used them in many ways. But the absolute BEST sling I've ever used, the ones I use exclusively now because they are the most versatile and bombproof I've ever known. I'm going to share with you the design, the advantages, and FIRST, I'm going to tell you how this sling was born.

I was in Farm and Fleet, or Tractor Supply, one of those, and I was, for SOME reason in the veterinary section that they have. See, I grew up on a farm and we had horses, and I was there having a reflective moment of.... girls, and horses and bouncing boobies. It was all good. And then I spied, over in the doggie section, this little sign, and it said, "SALE and it was attached to this PINK WEBBING. So , of course, I walk over there.

It was pink, all right. And there were 6 of these things. They were, like, 30" long. There was a sewn eye of about 8" in length at one end, and a 2"ring sewn into the other end. I looked at that ring and thought, "Stainless steel biner....!"

So that's what I did. I took the slings and ordered a box of the stainless steel slideline biners. I brought the bright silver biners and the hot pink, eyed sling to a place with an industrial sewing machine where they could replace the ring and sew in the new SS captive-eye biners (this keeps the caribiner tightly captive and unable to ever flip over).

The really extraordinary thing about these, other than that they're PINK, is that the 1" wide webbing, was actually, DOUBLED. For some reason, the manufacturer took a length of webbing, folded the length in half, on top of itself, and sewed the halves together. Then, once doubled over, they sewed in the big 8" eye, and then they sewed in the ring. I honestly have no idea how you would use this for a doggie, and I'm not sure anyone else does either.

I had in mind for these the purpose of making slideline (zipline) slings. Choker the limb, clip the SS biner to the zipline rope and cut.

For smaller trees I carry two slings. On big Kahunas I'll carry four. On slideline jobs, maybe 10. I really don't do much slideline work, but they ARE quite as awesome as expected for that purpose. How I use them MOST FREQUENTLY is in slinging limbs that are to be cut off. I sling em, cut em, shut off the saw, pull em up to myself. Unclip. Throw limb where I want it. You will know your 'limb size limit'.

Rebelays. Or redirects. Chokered around a limb (preferably above you) with the sling around the limb, biner fed through the eye, and it is an anchor point to clip-in your climbing line. Chokered around a vertical spire, one with no lateral limbs, choker the 'post' and you can get your foot in the 8" eye and use it as a 'ladder rung'. I don't do this much, but when you climb spikeless, you need to be able to pull out all the tricks.


False crotches. Choker around an adjacent limb, run your lowering line through it to act as a 'friction saver'. Hang your saw in the tree. Hang whatever gear.

Make firewood. What I mean here (and this is a takedown scenario) , is that once you sling and toss the limbage (brush), which is 6" diameter and down, the rest of the tree is (generally speaking) firewood, with an occasional sawlog. Your VERY PINK, 30" sling can fit around a limb up to about 12" in diameter aiding in the control of the pieces when needed.

I use them in a number of other ways, they are possibly my most versatile and useful of all the climbing tools that I repetitively use (other than the saws). The 30" length is only about 17" long with with the biner clipped back to the eye. They clip on to the back of your saddle and loop down to about the level of the back crease of your knee.... unless you're John Paul Sanborn, in which case the sling might hang and reach maybe about mid-thigh.

OK, I promised you a picture, and since you are my respected bretheren peers, I will share this simple, simple piece with you.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I love those tenex loops, been making them and some I&I's for about 6 months now. I like the I&I for light rigging 'cause they are neater on the saddle, but the lops in a choker give you 1200# SWL.

I keep a lot of web slings still, have a bag full of them, different sizes. The thing I like the best about them is that I can brush out a limb over a house and just keep clipping branches onto the lowering line till it gets filled up, or I gotta move. Then send the bunch down. Have it clipped into a redirect, then release the redirect to swing it out. Dont have to wait for the rope to come back up, or mess with getting the right swing on a cut and toss.

Using F&F dogleash slings for light rigging is not a problem, I do question using it onbig wood when you cant even make an educated guess as to SWL.

Buy a CMI bartack sling and they have it rated ar 27kn or 6750# or 675 for a 10% SWL. 3/8 tenex is rated at 6200#..

 

[Tree Machine]

Slings and making firewood

John Paul Sanborn, you are truly a Master. Your appreciation of slinggage goes most appreciated my myself. Yes, slinging multiple limbs together and doing a 'gang' lower, I love that, man.

If you lower the gang, you lower along with it your slings. I use that more as a plan B, or a Special Ops alternative.

I still much prefer the 'Sling Cut Unsling Throw' method, because you get to keep the sling. 30" is a length where you can choker any limb, up to the approx 6" 'size limit' , and still have length enough to stay well away from your saw blade.

Here's how an average good sling might go (this could be shown in TWO SECONDS of video. Ok, the sling has a looped eye end, and at the other end of the 30" length is a nicely weighted stainless steel biner. Holding the eye end, you sendthe weighted enarcing up and under the limb. If done just right, the caribinered end of the sling swings up from the underside, up, around, in temporary orbit, reaches,.. 12:00, apex, starts coming back down at 360 degrees lands PLOP in your hand. You're holding the eyed end, still, and youOne-handed feed the biner through the eye. Give it a quick, authoritative way, and you have chokered your limb, with finnesse.

Now you're holding the stainless steel caribiner in hand. I often, for fun, will set the biner tick-tocking back and forth from suspension. While it's swinging to and fro, I have both hands free to start up my 346.

Like John Paul, and many of you others, we like yo do a little face cut in most of our limbs. We might start the back cut with the saw, but like to stop short, shut off the saw, pull out our Silky Saw, and finish the backcut with one hand, while maintaining control of the sling, and thus limb, with the other. It goes the right direction you want it, and snaps off when you expect it to. Pull it up to you, un-choker it and toss it onto the tarps and ideally, in front of the chipper.

Again, this is limbage up to, but less than, about 6" diameter. For firewood, I will reply directly to the wise words of JPS:

Using F&F dogleash slings for light rigging is not a problem, I do question using it on big wood when you cant even make an educated guess as to SWL.

First, what the heck is F and F? Fido and Fleabag? OHHhhhh.... Farm and Fleet! Yer funny. And yess, light rigging only. In fact the 30" length is self-limiting on size; it'll only choker around a 12" round of wood and still leave enough length of sling to hold, on to, or to clip onto your (spliced end)lowering line. I would is this on 12" diameter pieces that are 16" long (that would be max for me), sling it, cut ut, unchoker it and toss it onto the target zone, which for me are a series of 4 pieces of 2' x 2' 3/4" ply, three tires, roped in a tiight triangle, and a thick 4' x 4' square of this thick, looks like truck bed lining, rubber, somebody told me it was industrial conveyor belt material, which seems likely.

Anyway, this system rocks for me most of the time. I do lower stuff, depending on the situation, but my rules for myself in the tree are simple. Get the material on to the ground, being low impact and controlled, Climb Safe, and do really good work.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Are you disparaging my pink gear? What's wrong with having pink gear?

Even though you got a deal on those slings you might try breaking them somehow to get an idea of how strong they might be. The webbing is probably strong especially if it's doubled. The suspect part is the stitching. What thread strength did they use? How many stitches? Sewn slings from major mountaineering manufacturers are so cheap that I wonder why you might save $$$ by buying FF unknowns. Tieing a Beer Knot or Water Knot gives you a sling with known breaking strength.

If the hardware is pink, its probably mine

Tom

 

[Tree Machine]

Pink gear is Ok for those comfortable in their masculinity

I didn't go looking to shave pennies. I totally stumbled, or the Treegod forces led me, to the pink double thick webbing, and I saw it as ideal. The 'SALE' thing was simply icing on the cake

You ask about strength. There is a place near here, American Wire Rope and Sling, www.awrsling.com where they have a certified tensile testing system. I've bought wire rope products and come-alongs from them for a long time and I asked how much for them to tensile test my rope-end eye-splices. They know I'll be coming in one day with 6 or 8 ropes and a digital video camera, ready to blow through, and measure all the eye splices I've created. They're mostly retired ropes and shorter utility lengths, and I can resplice eyes on any of the slightly shortened ropes if I ever need to. I imagine it'll be OK to test a couple pink slings while there, but I've got a feeling the double-thick sling material might out-tensile the stainless steel, 24kN caribiner. The sewn parts are righteous.... fat bar tacks, like on the Petzl runners.

Regardless of the tensile rating yet to come, I feel very secure in their use. If I do use it as a redirect, I'll often throw on another locking biner, or a non-locking biner, gate opposed.

Beer knots and water knots are how I've been doing it for the last 9 years. They do the job, and are easy , but I was in need of a quantum improvement.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

I'm happy to hear that you have an understanding of how gear is put together. There have been times where climbers have bought gear that is completely wrong for the task at hand.

A few years ago one of the major arbo supply houses was making webbing slings. They would box stitch the ends of the webbing together with a large stitch size. I think JPS had one of those slings blow out on a lower. I sure hope that company doesn't still sell those style slings.

Tom

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

The Wall flat web sling failed on a light rigging app. The only thing anyone could think is that there was some friction from one edge to another that sliced/melted the tape and the rest ripped.

this was not a stitch failure, and the sling was near virgin.

I'm sticking to tube web for light work and rope for everything else for that reason. Rope seems to be better designed for friction then slings.

As for keeping th slings with me, I have a stitche daisy that I bandoleer a rack of 10-15 variouse sized slings when I need to nibble away a tip. One of those methods that is nice to have available for occasional use. One of these days I'll make an Octopuss balancer with a reduclus number of legs on it it pic wide branches up. Maybe Tom can post a pic of his.

Another way to do the multi rig, or chandoleer, is to set several slings tiptie then cut them all out one at a time before lowering. Another good static, or pretensiond method. Snug the winch up, cut a few, snug it up again so nothing hits the roof...

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

TM's picture:

peenk sling and silky saw..jpg

I would say the cut you are making is a good last cut. To cut along the indicated line would be a flush cut.
See the nice swollen collar, just below the sawblade?

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

The only time I would see TM's chioce of cuts as being proper is if no collar were peresent. As in parallel branching or subordinate codominant branch. (gotta be a better term then that oxymoronic multisylabic utterance )

 

[Tree Machine]

Correcting myself on the previous pic

I looked again at my previous pic. When I posted that, I was in a 'takedown' frame of mind, but I didn't note that on the pic. (major oops) As far as flush-cutting off the limb, I ONLY do this on takedowns as the trunk is then ready for hunking into (smooth) round 16" firewood hunks, and the offed limb feeds better through the chipper.

I thought I would correct myself quickly because if you guys though I was pruning trees by flush cutting behind the collar, I would certainly be laughed out, and exonerated from the respected circle. I need to get my facts and presentation straight before I share it, because NOTHING gets past you guys.

 

[Stumper]

I 've been thinking about uses for the frog. How about overhead suspension of criminals with large tongue piercings?