Tax credits for hi effic. wood fireplaces-ripped off again

[RCR 3 EVER]

When purchasing our Lennox Montecito fireplace in Oct 2008, I knew it did not qualify for the current credit for stoves. Idiot dealer delayed install of unit until late March of 2009 with all of his mistakes. I had to even use new rules for 2009.
I just noticed a small 3" crack in the rear refractory panel so I went to the website for info. NOW am I not only mad that the panel cracked but I lost a $1000 in credit.:angry2:
The part is still under warranty luckily.

The same fireplace I purchased is available for the tax credit from the economic stimulus for fireplaces of 75% efficiency. The 2009 version is now rated at 86.6% and mine (2008) was 73%.
I do not get it since all the specs are the same: BTUs,emissions,log size & capacity, burn time and heat area, same size fire box & venting. The webpage is even the same except for that 1 number.
I called Lennox and 3 people said all that is different is the efficiency rating words basically. So, I have the same fireplace as 2009 version.

What a rip off I lose $1000 because dealer neglected to tell me of changes to fireplace ratings for new year and there is no difference in the fireplaces. Somebody just typed in 86% and said it is more efficient.

Manufacturer is saying that 2009 is better than 2008 even though they are the same model. It is like Toyota recalling part of its cars and saying all of them are fixed?

 

[Rich Audiano]

Not to be nasty,but if you went to all the effort to research,debate,purchase and have a unit installed,why did you rely on the dealer to know all the tax credit ramifications???

I knew when I bought my o.w.b I was getting a great unit,great service, and a dealer who knew a lot about helping me keep my house warm. I didn't go to him for his accounting skills. Don't call them when my car needs fixed or kids need help with homework.

As with anything,rules sometimes change so fast it is hard to keep abreast. That is where you as an educated consumer has to step up and make sure you are not leaving money on the table. If it was a rebate that they were holding back to line their pockets,I could see your anger.

But as I read it, you should have kept yourself in the loop regarding the tax issues.

 

[r8ingbull]

What's the model #? Check if your model number is on the list..if it is, claim it, get your refund. Doesnt matter if what year it was made, as long as it shows up on the list...

Model # MONTE

http://www.lennoxhearthproducts.com/pdfs/58626b_tax_cred_certif.pdf

 

[blades]

I got clipped in 08 due changes,deletions, or programs ended early on eveything I did that year. Windows, Hot water heater, furnace and AC. Couldn't get a single rebate or credit. The only satisfaction I have is being able to thumb my nose at the power co. who wanted to change the meters because they obviously were no longer reading correctly.

 

[STLfirewood]

My brother bought a new 4-door Jeep wrangler last January (09). I bought a New Caliber in August of (09). I was able to deduct 100% of my sales tax for a new car purchase. He wasn't because he bought his before Feb 14. Talk about ticked off. He couldn;t understand why they started that on Feb 14 and not Jan 1. Cost him over a grand. That's just the way things go sometimes.

Scott

 

[RCR 3 EVER]

Dealer did not care about customer

Not to be nasty,but if you went to all the effort to research,debate,purchase and have a unit installed,why did you rely on the dealer to know all the tax credit ramifications???

I knew when I bought my o.w.b I was getting a great unit,great service, and a dealer who knew a lot about helping me keep my house warm. I didn't go to him for his accounting skills. Don't call them when my car needs fixed or kids need help with homework.

As with anything,rules sometimes change so fast it is hard to keep abreast. That is where you as an educated consumer has to step up and make sure you are not leaving money on the table. If it was a rebate that they were holding back to line their pockets,I could see your anger.

But as I read it, you should have kept yourself in the loop regarding the tax issues.

How are we suppose to know when company changes product lines or raises prices. Try looking at price book most of them say confidential. Brochures don't even come out before the product sale. Dealers are supposed to be privvy and knowledgable about the product not the public. They should have inside info! If they truly care about the customer they will tell the customer wait and get a better deal in a few weeks The unit was sitting in my garage in the shipping crate and unopened box from October to March when he actually got around to installing it heck, I could have returned it and just gotten the more efficient unit!!!!!!!!! Bottom line he did not care.
The dealer was not reliable and tried to overcharge as it was. When we went to purchase the fireplace we found out the prices had gone up from what he had told us but luckily we had a quote that he honored. We had to point out the difference. He was supposed to install the fireplace door and he did not even do that right, there were huge gaps and it was not straight.

I had to watch the install like a hawk since they claimed when I bought the unit they installed them many times and had photos. Yet during my install I heard one of them say this was a first for them. They measured wrong and ordered wrong parts twice. Then they charged me for additional parts not installed. I caught it and told them of the overcharge and damage to our house also.

I found on my own the codes were outdated in instructions. I had to call Lennox for updates and to purchase additional parts to meet the codes. If I had followed the instructions given I would have had to rip out the slate and marble to install the part needed, The inspector DID check for this part.The dealer stated after I had installed the part " O yes that is required now good job in catching it before installing the slate." He did not even tell me of this part needed nor did he even have the part available to install himself!

I did my homework for any rebates at the time my fireplace was rated at 72% efficiency and stoves were higher so they got a rebate.

THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN CURRENT FIREPLACE AND MY FIREPLACE EXCEPT DESCRIPTION OF 86.6% EFFICIENCY​

I printed out description of my fireplace prior to purchase and the current one is word for word even the photo except the efficiency rating.

In order to receive the credit you have to install a 75% efficient biomass stove in 2009 and /or 2010. Again my stove missed it by a lousy 3%.

Enough ranting I did my homework but dealer screwed me out of big money and he knows it. I do like the fireplace though, if I had that magical 15% efficiency maybe I would burn a log less per night.

 

[Stovemeister]

Wood stoves, tax credits, etc.

My favorite "tax credit" is the HSA accounts. You get a tax break for setting aside your own money to pay for health care bills...but if you set aside too much and don't spend it all (like, you didn't get sick enough that year), you forfeit what is left as tax.

You gotta love that. Really. It is just so typical of Congress.

Anyway, there are so many if, ands, and buts in the heating tax credit that I'm surprised anybody gets it. It is all about appearances - Congress wants to appear to be doing something for you but that doesn't result in them not getting your money!

I bought two stoves this year and $800 worth of insulation. Can't get a dime of benefit out of it.

 

[laynes69]

If your fireplace wasn't purchased in 09 I think thats where it would get you with not getting the tax credit. As far as the 73% I believe that was a default efficiency number by the EPA. When the tax credits went in place alot of companies weren't qualifying for the credit because the default numbers were lower. Then they changed to the Lower Heating Value method and that increased numbers for units were being retested. If your fireplace is EPA certified then more than likely it meets the qualifications for the credit. If you bought it in 09 then you would have gotten the credit. Thats a bummer to not get it.

 

[RCR 3 EVER]

Great news

I talked to my tax guy and to another dealer who nearly installed the unit, But since I purchased from another dealer /installer he did not want to step on other's territory & install it.
Anyway, they both said epa is figuring efficiency different and as long as the manufacturer certificate has the same model name on it I qualify:biggrinbounce2:
The whole cost of the install price is used but only 30% is allowed or up to a max of $1500. Finally something good to come from all the pain and extra costs from dealer botches. There has still been a ongoing problem lack of door seal issues but new dealer will come out to fix the problem and adjust door properly (hopefully), original dealer just slapped the door on bent hinge pin and all.
Bottom line- efficiency didn't matter at all just as long as the stove was listed and installed during dates specified and listed on factory certificate!

 

[RCR 3 EVER]

But then again some parts were purchased in 2008 and website has conflicting info, so who knows until I get audited.

As far as the HSA accounts that is a gambler nightmare, will I get sick or not. We rarely run over and we usually run short.By a couple of months last year at least with more back problems coming on. The one time we did run over we bought a bunch of band aids and new glasses that year, but then we were burned by a hospital that delayed billing us by 6 months with a contested bill. For their delay and us to have to pay out of pocket then they were paid their reward of $15/month. Now they want to tax us on the HSA benefits? BUll...

 

[dingeryote]

RCR,

If you get audited on that stove, throw the pile of stove paperwork in front of the geek to look at.

Date of Purchase and model name is all he will even glance at...and if he wants to get all anal about things and make sense of the warranty dates and re-work done....well... let him, it will drive him to as many tears as you guys had getting that thing in. The worst that can happen is the credit be denied.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote

 

[RCR 3 EVER]

RCR,

If you get audited on that stove, throw the pile of stove paperwork in front of the geek to look at.

Date of Purchase and model name is all he will even glance at...and if he wants to get all anal about things and make sense of the warranty dates and re-work done....well... let him, it will drive him to as many tears as you guys had getting that thing in. The worst that can happen is the credit be denied.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote

Good idea, furthermore although it is a case of comparing apples to oranges but if kwame can get away with not paying $1,000,000.00 and probation penalties while living it up in TX, I should be able to get my my mere $1500.

I looked at IRS bulletin and what a bunch of double gobble crap. One line says as long as a person holds the certificate that the item complies with standards all is good and the next line says if paid before Dec 2008 you are only entitled to $500.. I think I will just claim it all and let them sort it out later if audited. Install is not included but I can claim everything needed for the install to bring it to code,maybe slate hearth.

 

[dingeryote]

Code says fire resistant material right? LOL!!

Taxmantoo might be able to help ya with the IRS circle talk.

I let my Tax guy color code stuff as black, white, Grey, light grey, or dark grey... and then go with dark Grey after a coin toss just to keep him happy.

If Geithner can't figure it out, how can any of his subordinates.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote