Tree Industry Organizations, what you think

[Nickrosis]

After my trip to the Northeast, I have started to think about whether tree care industry organizations are genuinely concerned about us, or if they perhaps prioritize themselves too highly.

In other words, are they really serving the industry like one would hope they do? I believe that constructive criticisms are the best printed or spoken words and hope that you have some to share in order to better those organizations.

Nickrosis

Unaffiliated with any affiliated organization affiliations.

 

[UrbanEarth]

In my experience with professional organizations, I have found that they seem to do more for the executive than the members, but I also believe that it is the responsibility of the members to agitate if they are not happy, and put forth ideas and initiatives for the executive to execute. Many PA's you get out of them what you put in, therefore it is easy to get not much!

Alan
Member ISA

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Seems to me that NAA is more gerared towards the big corporations. But then they are the ones fitting the bill. I do think they are worth their salt just itn the OSHA work they do for us.

I just cannot afford the dues at this time.

The research that the ISA does and the is invaluable, I aften say that the publications are worth the $105 per annum ( I'm a life member, so if I don't croak in ten years I'll be ahead.)

The trade shows these two organizations are well worth the total expenditures to get there and attend the talks.

They could do more for the small players, but what does they from them?

 

[Nickrosis]

I agree with you guys that the ISA and NAA have different target groups, ISA with individuals and NAA with corporations. I don't think it would be wise for the two major players to try to cater to the same people - having niches is great. The ISA does its part with the certification (coming up soon for me!) and the Journal (my professor is the editor, I have to say nice things), and the NAA does a great job with safety and like my dad told me, Bob Felix was one of his best influences.

My concern continues to be that of how pure their interests are. I'm referring to all organizations, not just NAA or ISA, I'm not picking on them. For the record, I believe they have done a lot for our industry and are fantastic at initiating positive momentums. I don't just say this because I'm afraid they could flunk my exam, I do mean it.

Nickrosis

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I think one of their shortfalls is that they only preach to the choir. I do not understand why there are not any public education peices on cable at least. Maybe a 5am infomercial spot on what arborists are. A few 5 min spots on PBS of the "I eat weeds and trees" genra.

 

[UrbanEarth]

I think you have a great point there John, the ISA has some public education material, but most of it is geared towards the professional. I would bet most homeowners wouldn't even know what ISA stands for let alone what a qualified arborist is. Again, I think that we as members have to be more vocal about what we want our association priorities to be, and if no one else is willing to do the work, we must do it ourselves.

Alan

 

[Nickrosis]

Treeclimber165....

I was in chat the other night discussing the costs and benifits of joining the ISA or NAA. Other than being able to put the logo in your yellow pages ad, I don't see a lot of benifits for small local tree guys. If they could provide something the little guy could USE, rather than seminars and trade shows hundreds or thousands of miles away, I might see it differently. I would think that helping small tree outfits (90%+ of us) acquire affordable insurance coverage would be a major issue. As it is, it seems like they only provide 'services' designed to separate us from our hard-earned dollars.

I think the severity of the insurance situation is a more recent development, and to expect the tree care industry organizations to turn around provide cheap and convenient insurance to all is a bit excessive.

A group discount would be a great idea but don't ask that of the NAA or ISA! They have many other important issues to be dealing with at the moment.

Benefits for members....I don't have the time to go into that, but I believe the list would extend for many pages and probably exceed the limit of characters for one post.

Nickrosis

 

[Nickrosis]

Treeman82

Stumper, the man in question was president of the NAA for several years, and heads up a large and well respected tree care firm out in Boston. This is something that I just cannot, for the life of me understand.

You will find examples of this all over.....heads of companies and organizations that are totally out of touch with the reality of the industry or the latest advancements and technologies. A shining exception is ...... of the ..A. If you go into the ..A office, ......'s the only person you could get into an intelligent discussion covering ascenders, growth rings, and the ..A's plans for the next 10 years. These types of people are needed to maintain reality!

I talked to the executive director of the ISA two weeks ago over dinner. When I mentioned the ISA's need for a staff arborist, he thought it was unnecessary and redundant because Sharon Lily and others were climbers. Well, not on an everyday basis! That's what's needed - someone with the business skills, biology background, and climbing know-how (and not from the mid-1990's).

To knowledge, not information!

Nickrosis

 

[treeclimber165]

Rather confusing thread, now that you are quoting posts that JPS has deleted.

 

[trees4life]

I am a member of 3 organizations and get valuable information from all 3. I enjoy going to the odd conference and to hear the latest info & research from around the continent. It think it is important to exchange information within the industry. However, I have been extremely turned off going due to the amount of anti-female & anti-municipal comments I hear. I'm not going to pay good money to listen to such crap.

I'm not impressed with some of the executive in a local chapter, since some of the most horrible comments have been from them. From some of the people I know, it seems like an old boys club & if you are not part of it, you will never make it onto the executive. Not that I want to, but I know people who have been excluded because they were not part of 'the group'. There are some really good people connected with this organization, so I try to stay focused on that, but it's hard when you are made to feel like an outcast by so many. I really do hope that not all chapters are like this.

It bothers me that people can collect CEU's without attending sessions. Is this what certification is all about?

Being a certified arborist is supposed to carry certain obligations with it. But I know a number who write to get their certification, and then forget about the ethics attached.

I hate to have to see regulations in place to keep our fellow arborists honest, but if it is not, then the certification is just another piece of paper.

 

[lhampton]

I guess we are pretty fortunate here. Our Texas Chapter ISA covers a lot that the small operators and field personnel find most interesting, and we have some strong Urban Forestry Councils who appear to be geared more towards improvements amongst the municipalities.

Things are far from ideal, but there is plenty of opportunity to get involved, and more good yet to do. There are still plenty of biased actions, but room yet to roll up your sleeves and jump in.

Louie Hampton

 

[TREETX]

There are a lot of opportunities to get involved here in the TX chapter. I used to be fairly involved but do not participate now.

Mainly because I think there is way too much preaching to the choir going on. Plus there are a few "know it alls" that can really spoil things for other people.

To me, they seem to be victims of what they preach against. They think everyone should be educated and continue education. Great, but that includes themselves. They think not and think owning a biz for the last 30yrs means they know it all. If you are reading it in a book, it is old. Take what you know from the book, get out of the office, climb a tree, make observations, ask questions and find answers- never, ever, stop doing this and you will always be learning.

There is also a large faction that usues their certification as a substitute for education. WAKE UP - it is a MINIMUM skills test. Just the minimum you should know. It is not like a Phd, it is more like a basic literacy test.

It serves mainly as a basic commitment to the profession. Like wow, he is committed enough to spend $250 on a test and test materials and meets experience requirements.

The ISA needs to to more policing themselves(industry) and more education of the public on the importance of aborists and tree care. Yes, I would pay more for this. Until then, I will just be satisfied with the sticker and logo that are not on my truck or on my ads.

They water down their organization and do "certified" members a dis-service by allowing companies to be members only. It should be solely an association of members, not including companies that just want to use the logos. Consumers do not know the difference between ISA - Blah Blah - Big Tree - 1924.... and "ISA Arborist" They are both professional looking logos and consumers do not make a distinction tween the 2. Members only should be down graded to "subscribers" that get discounts on overpriced books.

I was suprised that when you put ISA into GOOGLE, how many hits were Incest Survivors Anonymous or about 100 other things.

I'll send you an email if you want to know how I really feel.

Back to the trees..............................

ps - You guys have fun this week in WACO

 

[Froggy]

Reply

I want to know when the time is going to come when there is an association like the home builders association that will go to bat for us on insurance. If we just all could come together as a group. I think we could get some reasonable insurance. Especially Worker's Comp. Just a thought. If we keep paying out ragious prices for insurance. How are we ever going to make a dollar?? Makes you think??

 

[Stumper]

165, That quote is from the "A shaping pines" thread -JPS is innocent (this time ). As far as the ASSociationsare concerned I think JPS summed up my thoughts pretty well. NAA dues are too high for lots of the little guys and the org is geared to the big boys. ISA is more in tune with my type of op-but even the preaching to the choir isn't as good as it used to be-Arbor Age is little more than an unweildy advertising brochure.

 

[Gopher]

First of all, I would not be hwere I am today without the push to take the test two years ago and become ISA certified. Yes, I have my degree in forestry and soil science, but to redevelope my brain to make it think outside the box again was what got me going.

As JPS can now attest, I have miles to go to be ahead of my pace as slower but thorough. The discussion we generate helps us all to find that "home base" in our field, no matter what level that might be.

As a small time tree boy who only wants to be known for two things; being the best dad I can be for my three boys, and being remembered as a thoughtful, professional tree person (oops, I forgot one - being a good husband -yikes!) the organization can help to give me direction - even if it is in the opposite direction!

Gopher

 

[Nickrosis]

Originally posted by Stumper
Arbor Age is little more than an unweildy advertising brochure.

Perhaps, but Arbor Age isn't published by the ISA or the NAA.

I find everyone's opinions interesting, but I'm saving my thoughts for later....I just didn't want any misinformation.

Nickrosis

 

[Stumper]

You are right Nick. My apologies. Arbor Age isn't connected. I thought that when I first started getting it in the late 80's it was an ISA affliliated publication (it was a much better rag in those days). My apologies to everyone-if it ever was connected it is no longer.

 

[TREETX]

I heard a radio plug today for ASE certified mechanics. Something like just because your car was "worked on", doesn't mean it was fixed - take it to an ASE certified mechanic.

That was the jist of it anyway. I like that, an attempt to make ASE mechanics less of a commodity and more of an industry standard for excellence.

I would pay a heck of a lot more in dues if they pushed ISA arborists that way. I would pay 2 - 4X more. Now you pay for a sticker, and a discount on overpriced books. The only people for the most part recognizing certification are fellow tree workers and employers.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I'm an ISA Life Member, I think the peroidicals alone are worth the dues. JOA cone in and i drop everything to read all the abstracts right away.

If the WAA had a life membership I would pay it right away.

The only thing I wish...oh I've said that a few times....public eduaction....