Using the Gunning Sights

[smokechase II]

Here is a video showing how not to use your saws sights.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxFU5v59Gbc&mode=related&search=

For many trees this is actually acceptable as perfect accuracy is not a must if you have a good wide opening to start with.

When looking at this video please consider:
Looking at the sights from above requires either drawing a line with your hand or one with your mind while you move your head back and forth.

For best results get down, (head still vertical above shoulders - no neck exposure), and look down the sights at your target in the same view.

Granted, on low low stumps, this cannot be done. Those low stumps need to be on the safest solid green trees.

 

[smokechase II]

hold the saw level

In the previous video note how the instructor, Tim Ard, keeps the saw level as he sights from the slanting portion of the face cut.

This is because the saw has sights on both the sides and the top. If the saw is angled in addition to this angled down cut, the sights on the side will point a different direction than the sight on the top.

Neither will point in the direction of fall.

This sighting from the angled portion of the face cut is more difficult and takes away from your vertical situational awareness. It also contributes to fatigue as you cannot use your dawgs the way Tim cuts here. The primary reason dawgs are on your saw is to make it less work for you.

However, on smaller diameter timber, you can get away with this. I've noticed that some of the Scandinavian videos show short bars without any dawgs at all. Smaller trees and softer woods make this an option.

This picture here shows my oldest son looking 'down' the sights.
{I took some gas for no eye protection on this photo on another thread. That criticism is correct.} When making a level cut, the sights point correctly.

A quick trivia item: note how the face cut here is removing a split from affecting the fall. Occasionally the faller can adjust the trees lay to where a defect in the stem can be removed from mechanically messing with the fall by placing that defect in, above or below the face.

 

[smokechase II]

More precise sighting

The sights on every saws powerhead do not actually point to where the tree is faced.

They point to where the powerhead is facing.

If you are dropping a 28" diameter tree. The sights will be pointing about 20 inches to the side (of the center of the tree that the saw is on) of the face direction.

Here is a powerpoint slide I made to illustrate that. Please note that this direction thing is exaggerated here. The cutter hit the lava rock, just to the right of the snag about 50 feet out, that he was aiming for. The snag rolled left and this makes this parallax thing look larger than what it is.

Of course, if a faller is dropping larger diameter timber this distance increases.
Picture a stump that gets hit and breaks a valuable Douglas Fir or Cedar stem. Now picture that faller getting moved back to setting chokers or bumping knots at the landing to assist his focus on accuracy.

 

[blis]

....

However, on smaller diameter timber, you can get away with this. I've noticed that some of the Scandinavian videos show short bars without any dawgs at all. Smaller trees and softer woods make this an option.

.....

True that, here in scandinavia dawgs arent used at all (or very little) and most (including me) consider them a nuisance on saws... but as you said, smaller bars is one reason (13" is the most common here in finland), other reason being that small saws we use (50cc's are most common) just dont like being forced into tree with dawgs...

 

[SawWitch]

True that, here in scandinavia dawgs arent used at all (or very little) and most (including me) consider them a nuisance on saws... but as you said, smaller bars is one reason (13" is the most common here in finland), other reason being that small saws we use (50cc's are most common) just dont like being forced into tree with dawgs...

Hello Blis, and good morning!

Both me and Troll agree with you.
We have removed them from all saws, exept the 372xpg. They are only in the way with short and semi-short bars..... :love1:

 

[John Ellison]

How do others deal with side lean? I have best accuracy by keeping the bar at a right angle to the tree, forgetting ground level. Also a more wide open face than normal.

 

[rbtree]

As I'm an arborist, I'm sure you've done a lot more felling than me, John. But I prefer to keep with level cuts, regardless of the tree's orientation. One benefit is it creates a wider, and thus, stronger hinge, which can really help when swinging a tree.

Great tips, smokechase! I took Arbormaster training a few years ago, and they taught the top cut first method. Obvious it's harder to get accurate aim. I far prefer to make the horizontal cut first..it is not reliant on getting started correctly as is the top cut first method. Correcting its gun will result in a hinge that is not level.

On critical fells, I'm aware of the parallax error that is inherent with using the saw's sights, so I check the gun with the saw in the cut from both sides. And use a T Square or improvised gunning sticks sometimes...

 

[tawilson]

I used to do the bottom cut first, then after getting educated here I switched to the top cut first. I liked it because it seemed easier to match up my cuts when doing the bottom one last. It seemed when doing my top last I was usually having to go back to my bottom cut to clean it up. Is that from my lack of experience? Or is there some tricks. What Smokechase is saying is logical, and I'm wondering if I should try it again

 

[smokechase II]

logical attempt

TA:

When you look at how Tim Ard holds his saw level to start with. I think that is OK as long as you are dealing with very safe trees and do not need very precise sighting.

A couple thoughts:

Cutters need to be ambidextrous. To where they can safely make all their cuts from either side of the tree. (This to avoid placing oneself below a hazard - see powerpoint slide below).

TA: Can you make that vertical part of the face from the other side of the tree? The answer is yes. but only if you are capable of 'left-handed' cutting.
Which, while 'left-handed cutting should generally be discouraged, is OK in some instances, and I think this one is fine.

But it is a bit difficult here. I've never even tried it like this.
This safety thing might be a consideration.

 

[clearance]

Good points here. In my view, the sights can only work well when the saw is laying flat, the flat cut always goes in first to get the accuracy. RBTree, I too have used a tool to check my undercut, a 16"x24" framing square works good, like when you are falling trees between houses. About being ambidextrous, you have to be able to run the saw like this, falling or bucking, sometimes it is the only way to be safe. I have always followed the falling talks here, haven't always taken part, now I understand the "east coast-west coast" thing quite well. From a logical, safety and production viewpoint, pretty clear which way is best. The fallers from the west coast have made thier case beyond a reasonable doubt, thank you.

 

[gavin]

How do others deal with side lean? I have best accuracy by keeping the bar at a right angle to the tree, forgetting ground level. Also a more wide open face than normal.

same here. i was trained to cut angles that relate to the tree, not the ground.

 

[John Ellison]

same here. i was trained to cut angles that relate to the tree, not the ground.

Yes Gavin, me too. The gunning sights are useless otherwise,because the tree will not fall in a 90% arc. And if you make a level stump on a heavy side leaner(notch level to ground) everything is out of whack. The hinge will be wider but stressed differently and (I think) weaker.
Here is something I have done to help me picture this. Cut two four foot lengths of 3" dia. or so anything. In the middle of one make a face and a backcut at a 45% angle. In the other make a regular face and backcut that is at a 90% to the stick(dont forget to leave the hinge Then hold them at a 45% angle to sim. a heavy side lean and make the tree fall.