Shaver Improvement Forum.... one year later

[John D]

Thanks for the prompt reply Alan. Seems you think Central is better? I have debated these 2 companies back and forth. Any particular reason that I may not realize? I can still be persuaded to change for the right logic. Thanks.

Did you read the entire thread? If so,after reading,you would still want one? You have the benefit of this site,and the information here.If I had this resource before I ordered mine,rest assured I would not have bought a Shaver! Yes I "saved" 2200 dollars over a central boiler,but trust me,Id been better off not saving it,as Ive had to invest many hours and days working on it and additional money that I shouldnt have had to spend...I think you should run,not walk away from a Shaver unless its dirt cheap.....Also the boiler Central Boiler was going to sell me was the 6048,held 393 gallons of water,Shaver wanted to sell me a 165..held 165 gallons...I went up to a 250 Shaver (230 gallon),and I wish Id went bigger.Had I went with the Shaver 340,which is Shavers biggest,yet still not as big as a CB6048,the cost would have been within 1000 dollars..not much difference... Central boilers recommendation was right on the money for a trouble free OWB experience...as it is even after upsizing the Shaver,I still need to load 2x a day ,sometimes 3 in real cold weather for best performance. So if you settle on a shaver,go up 2 sizes from what they recommend,if they try to sell you a 165-get a 290..,and you'll still wish you went bigger...

 

[Cylon67]

OK I give

Sometimes it takes being smacked in the back of the head to see the light! Ok, I get it. Shavers out. CB it is. Looks like a 6048 will be coming my way this summer. I called to get a quote today on materials for the radiant heat. Actually, I called 2 places. I can't wait to get started. Meantime, we have another large snowstorm heading our way for Fri/Sat. Now, if I can only get off the grid......

 

[headleyj]

Sometimes it takes being smacked in the back of the head to see the light! Ok, I get it. Shavers out. CB it is. Looks like a 6048 will be coming my way this summer. I called to get a quote today on materials for the radiant heat. Actually, I called 2 places. I can't wait to get started. Meantime, we have another large snowstorm heading our way for Fri/Sat. Now, if I can only get off the grid......

you'll be glad that smack took hold If i had it to do over again, I'd spend the extra $ and go CB as well.

 

[John D]

I just hope I helped push you away from a Shaver....would want you to have to go thru what I have,I wish it on no one....

 

[smus]

You guys are certainly entitled to your opinions, I enjoy my Shaver and the fact I saved a good bit of change on its purchase over others.
I have also enjoyed "tinkering" with it making the mods suggested here. I have no other experience with other makes and models, just my experience with this one.
I could not afford a CB or one of the other higher end units as I am forced to get by on a fixed income. Shaver has done what is suppose to do. I put wood in it a couple times a day and it heats my house and hot water like it should.
I also have a "93 chev 4x4 that gets me back and forth to town when I need and gets me there in the same time and condition as my neighbors new Super Duty takes him. Mines paid for tho and I dont have all those dollars tied up in it.

 

[bluscout]

I like my Shaver too.

First off, I agree with what others have said on this forum. A Shaver is to a XXXX brand furnace as a GMC is to a Caddilac.
I was able to pick up furnaces up for my dad and I at Weld Rite in Salem so we saved a bunch on shipping.
I put mine on top of about a 12" slab. I also left it on the shipping pallet. Then I filled the entire cavity under the water box down to the slab with foam board. The sides of the slab also got 1" foam board.

I pulled the sides and roof off so I could:
Beef up the insulation up on the sides, tape up all seams, and add two layers of solar guard.
Add more insulation batts in the attic area.
Put a 6" stove pipe around the factory pipe and an 8" around that. I loosely packed fiberglass in that void.
Seal the access door for the DHW coil really well. This is one area where they could do much better! I found some gutter sealant made by GE at Home Depot. It has a service temp rating up to 400F. Comes in a white tube with green writing.
I extended the upper left water box penetration about 30" toward the front of the stove to promote better water circulation. I take my water to heat the house from there.
When the steel siding and roof was ready to go back on I extended the roof 2feet on the front and 1 foot in the back. I also ran the siding down over the shipping pallet and concrete slab.
While I was insulating I took the back door skin off and put some batts in there too.

I use the stock Cheesy thermostat. I glued it to the back of the water box where Shave intended for it to go. Most of the time my temps stay within about 15 to 20 degrees but at times it swings as much as 30. I'm not all that concerned with it. If the water is cooler than normal the air handler will run a little while longer, if it is hotter then it runs less.

I removed the damper from the fan and put a pvc drain elbow ( 2" I think) in it's place on the other end of the elbow is a reducer with a light foam rubber ball inside. When the fan is off the ball falls down and seals the end of the reducer. When the fan is on the ball floats up and lets the fan draw past it. I installed the damper to it seals the inlet to the reducer.

I insulated the area between the fire door and the deflector with fiberglass batting.

I spent most of a couple days doing this but could have hustled a little more and shaved about half a day I think.

Here's the bottom line for me. After reading and reading and reading posts here I decided I'd rather have a Shaver AND a Northern 37 ton splitter instead of a CB or a Taylor for about the same money. Your mileage may vary.

My dad isn't installing his for this season but is looking forward to having an ash grate. His Taylor doesn't. I made a 12" X 14" shovel that is contoured to match the floor of the Shaver to empty the ashes with.

Sorry this post got so long. I didn't realize I had that much to say.

 

[headleyj]

to each his own man, to each his own. My Shaver works well after I modified it all too, but looking back now I would still go with CB. I'm glad you like yours, I really am man.....either way we all saving tons of $ and feeding that CAD!!!! I guess I was just disappointed in all the mods I had to do to get it to perform correctly (in my opinion of course). Even with all my "mods", mine still doesn't perform as well as a CB (I know a fella who has a 1 year old CB 5036).....then there's teh overall quality of it. IMO, Shaver just doesn't have it. So that sums up my thoughts.....will I ever upgrade? maybe...we'll see.

 

[Windwalker7]

I might as well chime in!

Overall, it is easy to admit that Shaver units aren't up to par with CB. Central Boiler units are very well made and have a great reputation.

That being said, I know I never could have afforded a CB. It was a Shaver or nothing for me.

The price difference was enough for me to buy the Shaver. Yes I had to do several mods. The mods didn't take all that much time or money. Maybe $200 or so in mod material (6" flue pipe, insulation, Ranco thermostat and my blower mod)

I actually enjoyed tinkering with it!

If money were no object I might have gotten a CB but the couple thousand $$$ savings made it possible for me to have an OWB.

Like I said, if money is no object get the better made, higher priced, plug and play Central Boiler. If you are on the edge an willing to do a few mods, get the Shaver.

 

[scag52]

I just did the blower flapper mod from shaver. What a difference ! This mod alone has increased the burn times. I'm trying to get to a once a day load. Not there yet but getting close. Just bought a couple of rancos off of ebay so we'll see what they do . Not expecting much as my stock stat is working pretty good .

 

[Windwalker7]

You'll like the Ranco with a dry well mod.

You'l be able to see the actual water temp. With a 5* differential setting, you will get back up to temp quickly. Your blower won't run near as much to recover the temp.

I have mine set at 150* with blower kicking on at 145*.

Seemed like the stock stat would lose 15*-20* before blower would kick on and it took longer for the temp to recover with the stock blower being only 1/4 open.

 

[scag52]

I figured from all the reading i've done on them i better get one so i bought 2 on ebay for around 100 bucks. My hot water cover is sealed good and i really dont want to take it off . It had really sloppy holes cut into it around the top corners . I filled them up with silicone. I was wondering if i could drop the copper dry well in there . What do you think.?

 

[John D]

You'll like the Ranco with a dry well mod.

You'l be able to see the actual water temp. With a 5* differential setting, you will get back up to temp quickly. Your blower won't run near as much to recover the temp.

I have mine set at 150* with blower kicking on at 145*.

Seemed like the stock stat would lose 15*-20* before blower would kick on and it took longer for the temp to recover with the stock blower being only 1/4 open.

How are you getting away with 150-145 temp settings? I'd save a ton of wood if i could run mine that cool....I need 180 to get decent recovery times on the zones....180 outside is 170 inside with a zone on,160 with 2 zones,and 155 with 3....the DHW zone will not satisfy at all it will,it run non stop if the heat is on.....if I hooked up the coil in the shaver,I may be able to lower it a little,but still have a 2 family,so I cannot priority a zone.....i need multiple zones to heat simutaneously,and DHW at the same time...Ive considered running pex to the DHW,and using it.I have an empty 4" drain pipe in the ground for that.I also have some scrap sections of 1"black poly pipe.I was thinking about running the 3/4" inside the 1" and pulling them thru,but there would be zero insulation,just the 1" to keep any water off the 3/4",thats whats keeping me from using it..With my water temps at 180 on 185 off,I get great performance,and good hot water recovery.Not as good as when the oil is used,but acceptable.

 

[scag52]

I use the shaver hot water coils. One for the house and the other for the shop. They work perfect . Couldn't be happier with that set up . I have around 100ft of 3/4 pex left over if you want it .

 

[John D]

I use the shaver hot water coils. One for the house and the other for the shop. They work perfect . Couldn't be happier with that set up . I have around 100ft of 3/4 pex left over if you want it .

thanks for the offer..it costs more to ship than its worth,I need 2 lengths 110 ft each.......so ill buy a 300 ft coil...

 

[Windwalker7]

I figured from all the reading i've done on them i better get one so i bought 2 on ebay for around 100 bucks. My hot water cover is sealed good and i really dont want to take it off . It had really sloppy holes cut into it around the top corners . I filled them up with silicone. I was wondering if i could drop the copper dry well in there . What do you think.?

I drilled a hole in the top of my water jacket. It is on the left side of the water coil cover plate about 12" back.

I got piece of 1/4" copper tube with a cap soldered on one end and a 1/4 x 3/8 coupler on the other. Insert your probe down the tube and insert the tube in the hole. (the 1/4 x 3/8 coupler keeps it from falling through the hole) I then sealed it with silicone.

 

[Windwalker7]

How are you getting away with 150-145 temp settings? I'd save a ton of wood if i could run mine that cool....I need 180 to get decent recovery times on the zones....180 outside is 170 inside with a zone on,160 with 2 zones,and 155 with 3....the DHW zone will not satisfy at all it will,it run non stop if the heat is on.....if I hooked up the coil in the shaver,I may be able to lower it a little,but still have a 2 family,so I cannot priority a zone.....i need multiple zones to heat simutaneously,and DHW at the same time...Ive considered running pex to the DHW,and using it.I have an empty 4" drain pipe in the ground for that.I also have some scrap sections of 1"black poly pipe.I was thinking about running the 3/4" inside the 1" and pulling them thru,but there would be zero insulation,just the 1" to keep any water off the 3/4",thats whats keeping me from using it..With my water temps at 180 on 185 off,I get great performance,and good hot water recovery.Not as good as when the oil is used,but acceptable.

I have a 20" x 20" water/air HX in my plenum. Right after the water exits that HX it goes into a 10 plate water/water HX, and then goes back out to the OWB. I have my DHW hooked up to the coil in the water jacket. Its hokked up to a 80 gal. hot water tank.

The 10 plate water/water HX is hooked up to a pump. It circulates water through my self installed radiant floor system.

I admit I pretty much winged it on my radiant floor set up. I have a mixing valve, pressure tank, air eliminator, two 20ft. home made manifolds with 5 runs of 160ft. of 1/2" pex between floor joists covered with foiled bubble insulation. This heats a 24' x 30' great room with 18ft cathedral cieling on on half and a loft on the other half.

Anyway, it all works great running water temp at 150*. I usually fill the OWB 2 times a day unless temps are in the 20s or below I will fill 3 times a day.


Lots of times, on cold days, I throw wood in even when there is still enough wood to last a few more hours. I just rake the coals forward and throw a few more pieces in, if I'm out and about or going away for a while.

 

[scag52]

I've also been running 150* . with the stock stat. I have 2 temp gauges that read the same.

 

[scag52]

I drilled a hole in the top of my water jacket. It is on the left side of the water coil cover plate about 12" back.

I got piece of 1/4" copper tube with a cap soldered on one end and a 1/4 x 3/8 coupler on the other. Insert your probe down the tube and insert the tube in the hole. (the 1/4 x 3/8 coupler keeps it from falling through the hole) I then sealed it with silicone.

Did you drill into the water jacket while using the stove. Metal shavings in the water ?

 

[smus]

When I drilled mine, I placed one of those magnetic parts retrievers right next to the spot where I drilled. I used a little cutting oil to keep the shavings together after they were cut, then when I was done, I drug the magnet across the top of the drill hole without lifting too much to pull the shavings away and out. I don't know if it pulled all from the inside or not but, I did have a nice glob of metal shavings clinging to the magnet.

 

[Windwalker7]

I had the stove shut down for a few days during a warm spell.

I did have some concern about metal shavings but figured they would settle to the bottom.

Since I am drawing water from near the top of the water jacket, I'm hoping there won't be a problem. I installed the Ranco in late winter last year. So far, so good.

That magnet idea sounds like it would work.