Depth of face cut

[LogSawyer74]

Hello gents, curious about everyone's opinion on this. I've been cutting on a buddy's land where he sold an easement to a power company along the fence line of his 40 acre property. It's pasture/hay ground, but the fence row is covered up in post oak and hickory about 35-40 feet wide along the fence. Most of it is about 10-14" diameter. The power company will be dozing the fence row pretty quickly, so I've been cutting as much as I can before it gets pushed over. Most all the trees are leaning slightly toward the barb wire for some reason, so I've been falling them against the lean using wedges. On two or three I had to use a steel splitting wedge to get enough lift to push them over (I know that's a big no-no, but I put on my sunglasses/eye protection). I've had really good luck, haven't had one go the wrong way yet. Of course there's been a few that I didn't try because the lean was too great. I've noticed that if I use a little deeper face cut, it doesn't take as much lift to get them to go past the point of balance and fall the way I want them too. I guess it moves the hinge point closer to the center of the tree. On some, I've made my face cut almost half way thru the tree to make sure I have enough lift (stack wedges) to get it over. I would never try this on a tree bigger than 14-16" or so. I'm always watching for a barber chair, but I wanted to get everyone's opinion. Is this safe? Anyone had any problems doing something similar? Is it dangerous to use a face cut deeper than a quarter or third of the tree? Thanks for any input

 

[HuskStihl]

On a back-leaner you ideally don't want a deep face in order to allow more hinge to support the necessary wedging. Your method will be fine until you break a hinge and it goes over backwards. You might try making the back cut first, get a wedge in, put in a 1/3rd depth open face, then keep driving the wedge/sawing the back cut until things go u'r way

 

[zogger]

I...don't...know, but want to find out as well. I've done some back leaners like that, with one spectacular and dangerous failure. All the rest were OK, but first bigger one I tried, epic fail, couldn't get enough lift.

 

[LogSawyer74]

On a back-leaner you ideally don't want a deep face in order to allow more hinge to support the necessary wedging. Your method will be fine until you break a hinge and it goes over backwards. You might try making the back cut first, get a wedge in, put in a 1/3rd depth open face, then keep driving the wedge/sawing the back cut until things go u'r way

I actually tried that on one tree, but these trees are small enough that once I get a wedge in the back cut, I didn't have room to get my bar back in when I needed to narrow the hinge a bit. I've thought about taking a small wedge and cutting 2-3 inches off the tip with a hacksaw to give myself more room on these small trees....

 

[LogSawyer74]

I...don't...know, but want to find out as well. I've done some back leaners like that, with one spectacular and dangerous failure. All the rest were OK, but first bigger one I tried, epic fail, couldn't get enough lift.

Can you elaborate on the spectacular and dangerous parts? Just curious

 

[Whitespider]

I "pull" back-leaners with a vehicle, winch or come-a-long... usually with a dead-head pulley so I can control the "pull equipment" from close to where I'm doin' the cuttin'.
*

 

[svk]

I...don't...know, but want to find out as well. I've done some back leaners like that, with one spectacular and dangerous failure. All the rest were OK, but first bigger one I tried, epic fail, couldn't get enough lift.

Was that the big c-wood that went in the pond?

 

[zogger]

Was that the big c-wood that went in the pond?

Tulip poplar, yep. Was some pretty good jackie chan moves there for a second.

Tree goes CREAAAAKKKK zogger goes EEEK! step, step (braine goes...rats, too slow..), big ole jump and roll!

At least I had an escape path scoped out in advance. Gravity works fast!

Top third or so is still soak curing in the pond.....

 

[zogger]

Can you elaborate on the spectacular and dangerous parts? Just curious

I posted about it before, not ashamed to post epic fails..had a nice tulip polar, but leaning towards a pond. whereas the other direction, once felled, I could back right up to it, easy score..so I am gonna face cut it, and then wedge it over. Almost got it, but not quite, it fell the way it wanted to go anyway.

It was rather..exciting...

Any number of wrong-o moves. First, shoulda just let it go the way it wanted and drug it out with some equipment and chains. Made the face cut wrong (that part not sure of, too shallow, not deep enough??). Underestimated the amount of force needed sledging the wedges in to move a big heavy tree. I needed more grunt than I had/have I guess. Stuff like that.

There was nothing the other direction to attach to close by to hook up a comealong, and don't have enough longer stronger whatevers, chain/rope, etc that I would have trusted. So, I wanted to try and wedge it. I had four wedges in it and it still went the direction of the lean.

 

[svk]

Tulip poplar, yep. Was some pretty good jackie chan moves there for a second.

Tree goes CREAAAAKKKK zogger goes EEEK! step, step (braine goes...rats, too slow..), big ole jump and roll!

At least I had an escape path scoped out in advance. Gravity works fast!

Top third or so is still soak curing in the pond.....

Jackie Chan with a beard!! I can picture it happening.

 

[mainewoods]

I "pull" back-leaners with a vehicle, winch or come-a-long... usually with a dead-head pulley so I can control the "pull equipment" from close to where I'm doin' the cuttin'.
*

Yup, a little mechanical persuasion ( come-a-long,winch or vehicle)works wonders on back leaners. A snatch block really helps for offset pulling, to keep you clear of the drop zone.

 

[LogSawyer74]

Thanks. sounds like I would have done it the exact same way. I guess you win some and lose some. Just trying to educamate myself hoping to prevent taking down the barb wire fence and letting all the cows out....

 

[svk]

I posted about it before, not ashamed to post epic fails..had a nice tulip polar, but leaning towards a pond. whereas the other direction, once felled, I could back right up to it, easy score..so I am gonna face cut it, and then wedge it over. Almost got it, but not quite, it fell the way it wanted to go anyway.

It was rather..exciting...

Any number of wrong-o moves. First, shoulda just let it go the way it wanted and drug it out with some equipment and chains. Made the face cut wrong (that part not sure of, too shallow, not deep enough??). Underestimated the amount of force needed sledging the wedges in to move a big heavy tree. I needed more grunt than I had/have I guess. Stuff like that.

There was nothing the other direction to attach to close by to hook up a comealong, and don't have enough longer stronger whatevers, chain/rope, etc that I would have trusted. So, I wanted to try and wedge it. I had four wedges in it and it still went the direction of the lean.

An experienced wedge feller can do magic. Although I prefer to use a chain hoist to ensure there are no whoopsies.

 

[zogger]

An experienced wedge feller can do magic. Although I prefer to use a chain hoist to ensure there are no whoopsies.

Oh, no doubt at all. Technically, I am "more" experienced now. There's a weight and angle threshold I now know I can't do with what tools and grunt I have, so go to plan b on those, if/when the situation comes up again.

 

[rwoods]

Be careful with those steel wedges, sometimes they get spit out rather easily and quickly - then all that extra "lift" just adds momentum to the tree which is now moving in the wrong direction. Ron

 

[slowp]

Cody, a seasoned, excellent faller can do magic. And get some plastic falling wedges, you'll eventually nick a wedge with your saw.



Also, there's only so much you can do with any kind of lean, and fences, pickups, houses, etc. have tractor beams.

 

[treeslayer2003]

depth of face is relative.........there is nothing wrong with a 50% face under the right circumstances. little wood is hard to turn, just don't have alot of meat to work with, i can do much more with 30"+ timber.
sounds like your not doing to bad, leaving the ones your unsure of is smart.
by the way, deep and steep faces do not cause a barber chair, not matching cuts in the face does. be care full on the hickory, it don't like real wide hinges.

 

[Woody912]

I "pull" back-leaners with a vehicle, winch or come-a-long... usually with a dead-head pulley so I can control the "pull equipment" from close to where I'm doin' the cuttin'.
*

Me too. I also put in a high back cut and then try to ease the tree past TDC while I still have plenty of hinge. Helps to have a buddy in the truck

 

[mdavlee]

Bore straight through the hinge from the back where the wedge will be. It can give you room if the wedge is bottoming out on the hinge. I hate smaller trees like that. No room to work for the most part. The back cut first works pretty good on them.

 

[woodchuck357]

Deeper notches do move the center of gravity and will increase the amount of top movement a given wedge will provide. Try laying them down closer to parallel with the fence, it is easier to get a tree to fall sideways to the lean than directly against the lean. Rope pull is much more reliable than wedges, especially with smaller trees.
Just be sure to use a long enough rope so you don't wind up under the tree.