Surface roots on drake elm

[Feebys Owner]

Hi,

I have a drake elm that was planted in October 2016. There are surface roots that, if I can, I would like to remove before they become problematic. Our previous drake elm, grew at least one very large surface root over 20 years that look almost like a second trunk in the ground. I would like to prevent that from happening with this new one. The main trunk of this new tree is about 3 inches in diameter, maybe 12 feet tall. (Photos included).

Can I remove these roots now without harming the tree? Thanks!

 

[PJM]

Chinese/lacebark elms like yours, notably have shallow roots. Probably just something that you will have to tolerate. I would suggest you carefully excavate the mulch and some soil to get a clearer look at what is going on with that topmost root before cutting, but you are likely to be okay removing it.

 

[Feebys Owner]

PJM - thanks. I will dig down some and see if that tells me anything more. It is concerning to me, in addition to what I mentioned initially, because another previous drake elm (in a separate location of the yard) just fell down one day - turns out it strangled itself with overwhelming surface roots. That tree was probably 10-15 years old.

 

[ropensaddle]

PJM - thanks. I will dig down some and see if that tells me anything more. It is concerning to me, in addition to what I mentioned initially, because another previous drake elm (in a separate location of the yard) just fell down one day - turns out it strangled itself with overwhelming surface roots. That tree was probably 10-15 years old.

When mulching keep the mulch away from the trunk it needs to dry out there it can cause circling roots and other problems. I start my mulch 10 inches from the base and go to the dripline.

 

[jefflovstrom]

PJM - thanks. I will dig down some and see if that tells me anything more. It is concerning to me, in addition to what I mentioned initially, because another previous drake elm (in a separate location of the yard) just fell down one day - turns out it strangled itself with overwhelming surface roots. That tree was probably 10-15 years old.

Strangled because the roots probably girdled. When a shovel is used to dig a hole to plant a tree, the backside of the shovel glazes the sides of the hole and can potentially become a root barrier.
Jeff,

 

[Feebys Owner]

Oh, yeah - I've got problems with the roots on this tree, for sure! Dug away some of the soil and met up with a network of tiny roots, not to mention some seriously big ones that look to be, at least, encircling half the tree. See pics. (Disregard the black cable line in the one pic.)
Now what? I suppose I am going to have to find an arborist to come take a look and advise on how to remove what can be removed????? Help!!!!

 

[JTM]

Nice Sago

 

[jefflovstrom]

Oh, yeah - I've got problems with the roots on this tree, for sure! Dug away some of the soil and met up with a network of tiny roots, not to mention some seriously big ones that look to be, at least, encircling half the tree. See pics. (Disregard the black cable line in the one pic.)
Now what? I suppose I am going to have to find an arborist to come take a look and advise on how to remove what can be removed????? Help!!!!

Yup, I knew it,
Call a local certified arborist or remove it, up to you,
If you want to find one, here is a link, just put in your zip-code,,
http://www.isa-arbor.com/findanarborist/arboristsearch.aspx

Jeff

 

[Feebys Owner]

JTM - That sago is a mutant - or, at least, we let it get that way. Has five heads, would have more if I hadn't stopped it. Can only allow growth on three of the heads due to crowding. While it is nice, it is a pain in the a--.!

 

[Feebys Owner]

Jeff - I think I will try to remove the roots myself. Another forum site member offered up a YouTube video by arborists in southern FL that demonstrated what to do. I think I can handle that. The only reason I may eventually consult an arborist is because of the cross growth of some of the upper limbs that probably should be removed, and I am not sure exactly how to go about that part. Thanks for the arborist link!

 

[JTM]

JTM - That sago is a mutant - or, at least, we let it get that way. Has five heads, would have more if I hadn't stopped it. Can only allow growth on three of the heads due to crowding. While it is nice, it is a pain in the a--.!

I brought a couple of sagos back from Florida about 15 years ago. One keeps coming back after every winter but is small compared to what you have there.

 

[Feebys Owner]

JTM - I have numerous sagos in my yard, but that one is particular is the only one that has run 'amok'. The other one in my front yard (see pic from a year ago, sago on the right) is a 'baby' from one that grew to about 6 feet tall before it succumbed to scale disease. I took it out and allowed the baby to grow - I think that was probably 4-5 years ago. This one, like its 'mother' is growing like a weed. Just have to consistently treat the scale. Now, it's growing a few babies at the bottom; I guess one them will replace it when it gets too big and/or succumbs to scale.

 

[Feebys Owner]

Ok - update... did some more digging. What a mess! In trying to determine where exactly some of these roots actually originate - and whether they ultimately extend outward (resulting from better growth after the tree was planted) is causing me to lose a lot of tinier roots. Many of them are surface and some are growing over others. How much of these smaller roots can I afford to get rid of in order to see more deeply about the girdling roots?

From what I see so far, the nursery may have done a good job in planting the tree in order to allow the roots to grow outward, but it sure seems obvious to me that this tree was in that 65 gallon container too long, or not properly handled when it was moved to that container. See 3 new pics. I am not too sure about how many "good" bigger roots there are, but there seems to be a few from what I've dug up so far.

Any more advice on how to proceed? I feel like I have to get rid of a bunch of the tinier roots to get a better view of the larger ones that are partially (or entirely, I can't tell) encircling the trunk. Thanks!

 

[ropensaddle]

Ok - update... did some more digging. What a mess! In trying to determine where exactly some of these roots actually originate - and whether they ultimately extend outward (resulting from better growth after the tree was planted) is causing me to lose a lot of tinier roots. Many of them are surface and some are growing over others. How much of these smaller roots can I afford to get rid of in order to see more deeply about the girdling roots?

From what I see so far, the nursery may have done a good job in planting the tree in order to allow the roots to grow outward, but it sure seems obvious to me that this tree was in that 65 gallon container too long, or not properly handled when it was moved to that container. See 3 new pics. I am not too sure about how many "good" bigger roots there are, but there seems to be a few from what I've dug up so far.

Any more advice on how to proceed? I feel like I have to get rid of a bunch of the tinier roots to get a better view of the larger ones that are partially (or entirely, I can't tell) encircling the trunk. Thanks!

While container could have the effect the mulch to the bark was what imo created your circling. i have seen more than my share of improperly mulched trees with circling roots! That area remaining damp creates the mess your describing by encouraging root growth there. At this point you got to do whats necessary to get to that girdling root. No they did not plant it well ,it looks too deeply planted. I can't really view your photos though because you did not select full and so when i click to view i get a black screen.

 

[Feebys Owner]

Ropensaddle - I would have never thought the pine bark I use for mulch - at less than an inch in height coverage would create such an issue. I do recognize, though, that most do not support mulch - regardless of the amount - being placed close to the trunk. However, the congregation of the tinier roots around the trunk base were there at time of planting; and, I suspect that the girdling had already begun at that time as well. I re-uploaded one of the pics, if that helps you have a better look.

 

[ropensaddle]

Appears you have 1 that needs cut immediately but as caliper increase the other two may also need cut. How much soil was removed to expose that flare as that should have been above grade a bit at planting ! If you had an air spade the soil could be blasted away and some roots could be straightened to go away. Mulch keeps it moist and near the trunk that is not a healthy scenario. I do however believe that they were circling from the nursery too but moisture there can add to the effect. The flare to the left that has those two larger circling roots is there a buttress root heading away those two sprouted from? Anyway regardless the circling has to be stopped.

 

[ropensaddle]

Here's a sawtooth oak I planted 3 years ago, it was wrist size and 3 feet tall at planting now its thigh sized and over 20 feet tall. They are sort of fast growing early on but you can see the flare is almost ideal! It was deformed from the nursery too but is doing pretty well.

 

[ropensaddle]

Time to trim the blue berry's again lol

 

[Feebys Owner]

Ropensaddle - the only root that was above surface level (as related to this last pic) was the smaller one on the left that is circling right. You can almost see how much was exposed based on the coloration of the root itself (dryer looking brown, versus wetter looking). The rest were below the soil, but not that far down below, to be honest. It was the left root - and all the tiny surface roots that got me to wondering if something else was going on. However, I do have to admit, I don't believe I saw too much of a trunk flare before digging the soil out that exposed the girdling roots. If you go back to my original posted pics, you can see what I mean.

I would have to dig even deeper to determine what is going on with the two larger circling roots, but from what I can tell the 'top' one according to the pic angle does extend outward. The other I am not so sure about. I just haven't gone far down enough to identify exactly where they started from, nor where the second root goes. It seems to me that is a problem anyway, because - somewhat depending on where they both originate from - they may both have to go, as the top one seems to be secondary to the other one. That is what is confounding me so much about this.

I am contacting arborists in the area to come take a look at this. It seems like such a mess, that I think I need someone with the right tools and education to determine what all can be cut away. The problem is I've contacted 3 so far, and only one has even bothered to respond. Guess I will have to look for more. As much as I would like to resolve this one my own, I don't think I have the proper equipment to do so.

 

[jefflovstrom]

Why not just remove and replace and have it planted right? Cheaper.
Jeff