Seasoned?

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Saugatuck, Michigan
Thinking about the concept of seasoned wood.
What is it?
Some say below 20% moisture is good, some 12%, etc.
So there is a variable, a seemingly huge one.

Measured with a moisture meter, what does that number represent?
My understanding is a moisture meter measures electrical resistance.
That resistance is an estimate of what?
20% by volume, by weight of total water, by overall weight of the wood (that doesn't make sense)?

My guess is that a hundred pound (round numbers) piece of red oak typically holds X amount of water when freshly cut, and 20% moisture means 80% of X (representing 100% of the water initially present) has evaporated or wicked away.
X, and 20% of X, means what really?
If I had a real number to tell a customer, say this cord of Oak is 20% and has 200 pounds of water, and this cord has...
200/X = 20/12
2400 = 20X
120 = X
this cord has 120 pounds of water at 12% moisture.
80 pounds less water, but those are numbers pulled out of the air as an example.
A customer however might think 80 pounds is a lot of water. It is something, a number one can visualize, as in a 55 gallon drum, plus half another one, going in their fireplace or wood stove...
So what are the real numbers?

So, if that is the case, how much water are we talking, how much water in fluid volume is that 20%?
And, how much water is 12%, or the difference between 20% and 12%?

Then there are other species.
How does that figure in? How much water is in 100 pounds of red oak vs 100 pounds of pine?
It would seem there would be a cubic volume difference of wood to start with, and electrical resistance would be effected.

Part of my interest is that when selling wood, the first question is "Is it seasoned?"
I sell Oak seasoned one year, or twelve months. That answer is quit vague, and I use it on purpose, for this reason.
Some think that is seasoned using the 12 month standard of seasoning.

It is burnable, but not good in a catalytic wood stove.
So I ask if they are using a catalytic stove. If the answer is no, then I leave it alone, and to them to decide.
If the answer is yes, they use a catalytic stove, I suggest they season it themselves another year, or keep looking for another source.
I do not use a moisture meter, and do not make promises about seasoning numbers which I have little to no control over anyway. Every year the seasons are different, along with seasoning. Two years averages it out a little better but I don't have room for that on a large scale.
If they ask what we personally burn, I say a catalytic stove, and point to the 24' x 32' three open sided wood shed with spaced rows of one and two year old oak.

Another part of my interest in understanding seasoning, is possibly getting away from oak, and sell hardwood species that 'season' more quickly than the oaks. Species that retain less water initially if that is the case, or are less dense and season more quickly due to that. Only a few of my customers actually heat continually with wood and would miss oak.

I have been selling firewood for several years now, gradually improving 'seasoning' conditions to enhance the drying of larger quantities of firewood, although still very small scale at sixty plus cord/yr. I've cleared an area for more sun/air; gone to palletizing loose stacked with netting, which means small 1/4 cord bundled quantities with good air flow (similar to firewood bags); and loosely covered on top only to shed snow melt and spring/summer/fall rains that may last a few hours, or a few weeks in southwest Michigan.

Todays rain has paused for a bit, so back to splitting, the first step of seasoning.
 
3 years cut/split stacked in rows, 8 months stacked in wood crib, Seasoned. About all I burn in red oak, oak wilt is and has destroyed a lot of forest around here. Easy to get, no wood productions companies want it.
 
Sand you must be be crazy to come up with a dialog as you did. Of course I relate. Most people that sell wood get a property to store wood away until it is well seasoned. If you can not afford that at this time then you will have to come up with a plan "B". If the people you sell to will not pay extra for seasoned wood then do not worry about selling UNSEASONED wood. I most often sell wood that I know burns well and I check it to see that it burns well by burning it randomly. Most Oak should be able to be seasoned in one year without problems. However it may take plenty of work to get it dry enough to burn. There are plenty of threads about how to dry wood out quickly. The best system that I have seen are sheds built with roofing panels that are at least partially clear that allows the sun to go through, but keeps the rain out with circulating fans. I know that your area gets quite a bit of freezing weather so you need to take advantage of that. Here in California we do not that problem much. Some times we get rain for 6 months and then every body calls to say is your wood dry? As you say every season is different. So there is not one size fits all. My most successful program has been to set up my customers on a two to three year plan where as I deliver to them enough for at least two years. I often give them a year to fully pay for the wood, but I extend credit to people I know well. I make an extra $100 a cord by not having to store the wood or stack it a second time. I have put very green or wet wood down first with some dry on top. I do not know what value a moisture meter has if you can not glance at a piece of wood by now and tell me it is is going to burn or not then you had better work on it. It works for me. Thanks
 
I agree with your concept of moving away from oak Sandhill. Very much over rated and a bit of a pain for those of us that do sell wood in any kind of volume. When you're buying logs at $100/cord delivered and it takes better than a year to get it seasoned, that ties up some serious funds. Green wood just does not sell well in this area. The buyers want to use it now. The majority of my customers are recreational burners, yet they insist on oak wood for firepits..??? Lot of potential BTUs up in smoke when a mix of maple, birch, ash and small bit of oak is a far better product for that use.
 
Some meters will have settings for different species.

I believe most meters are "calibrated" for fir at 70* or something like that.


I do know from experience to not put much faith in a cheap meter.

The meter I have, I've had it read ~12% on 1 year seasoned firewood, which is credible, but then read the same on 40+ yr old lumber or read 35% on wood so wet it was dripping.

I'm working on doing seasoned wood starting latell this year so have researched moisture meters a bit.

Wagner makes a few models in the $300 area that can be programmed for various species. Not sure if they are any good?

We have a ligno at the shop, which apparently was the cats moew years ago, but it doesn't work right.
 
I'll throw some numbers out again.
Just estimates...
A cord of fresh cut/split Oak is approx. 5,800 pounds
Seasoned a year it is approx. 4,000 pounds. No specific percentage, but still heavy and not two year seasoned.
1,800 pounds of water, or approx. 1/3 weight loss.
8.34 pounds per U.S. gallon of water
Doing the math gives approx. 215 gallons of water loss... evaporated, sublimated, or whatever is happening.
I guess the thing to do would be load and scale one cord of fresh cut/split, then redo that in one year, and again in two years time.
And of course split some samples and do a moisture meter reading each time along with that.
If it looses another 500 pounds, thats almost another 60 gallons U.S. of water.
 
Sand does any of this make any difference? I have used meters before and they do not work. The centers of a split chunk take longer than the ends to dry out. Certain pieces at the bottom of the stacked rows are not exposed as much. So yes if you go through a pile of wood and check a dozen pieces of wood what will you know that you did not already know? If you want to store 50 cords of wood two years for it to be well seasoned than that is what is needed. To look at some wood and not knowing if it is prime ready to burn is questionable. It is rare that I need to pick up a piece of wood to decide if it is really seasoned or not. I am sure that is the same for you. So if you want to sell Oak then you need a different strategy. When I cut green Oak it has never weighed less than 8,000 lbs per cord. I have numerous scale receipts to prove it. A well seasoned cord of Oak is around 5,000 lbs. Dry Pine is around 38 to 4,000 lbs, but each area is a little different. Thanks
 
I think there are many variables here. A meter should be correctly calibrated to a set standard (although I wonder how accurate any of them really are), and is a good way to get a rough idea and a consistent idea of moisture. I'm sure your gonna have to punt at some point and take a guess. I doubt many area's will allow any wood to dry past the dew point or relative humidity of that area without using a kiln. Wood burners and stoves vary a lot and I'm sure some are finicky when it comes to there fuel. Some not so much. Then you have people that like there burn times consistent and predictable. Some folks like there wood very dry and some like it a little wetter. Like I said, lots of variables.
 
Even if a meter is not correct, if you use it correctly and the same way every time, it really doesn't mater if it's correct.
You can use a meter and find a percentage that works for you and then use it to make sure your wood is where you want it.
 
I buy 20 cord truck loads of logs from Chris Muma Forestry Products, which probably come from near you.

Holy smokes, must be a hell of a truck!, that's gotta be sitting at around 160-170,000lbs. I've seen that in Maine where I grew up, but that wasn't on public roads.

We get 9-10 cords on the log truck. I've had to push or pull the truck out of the woods with the skidder, it's hard enough like that, I don't think double the weight would be doable!
 
Some markets sell by weight. But then weight at what moisture content. The best we are going to get is at equilibrium moisture content for the area, whatever that may be. Altitude would generally hold a lower EMC.

In some respects is a problem that there is no defined moisture content as seasoned for common species, but in other respects that grey area can give you a point of difference in that your customers simply have to trust you that it's seasoned. Once they have been bitten by assorted idjits selling poorly seasoned wood as properly seasoned, they'll stick with you.

I was thinking along a slightly different aspect of seasoning today and have set up an experiment. Which do you think will season faster:
1. Standing trees that have been ring-barked.
2. trees that have been felled and are leaning down the slope
3. trees that have been felled and cut into rings/rounds?

I set up a few of each today and will come back and check them at the start of Summer. At first thought, I was thinking it will be the rings, but on the drive home I started thinking the ring-barked trees have foliage almost 90' up in the breeze and that must surely be sucking moisture out of the tree via a moisture gradient. So maybe that will be the faster seasoning, or at least pretty close to cut rings.
 
Well I have considered splitting a piece as square as you can then measure the dimensions.
Calculate the cubic inches in the piece CU = L * W * H ( length * width * height )

Weight the piece -> W

Look up the fully dried density of the species in the units you are using. Convenient would be pounds / cubic inch.

calculate the weight of a piece fully dried WD = CU * Densisty

%moist = ( W - WD)/WD

Thats a lot of trouble but it should be accurate as a check on your moisture meter.
 
I think Muma runs six of these trucks. A couple times I've had two loads pull in.View attachment 651529 View attachment 651530

I thought you were completely wrong in your assessment of your load capacity and cordage. But maybe you could get 15 or 20 cords out of a load. Here we can not move more than 80,000 lbs at a time period. Even if we are hauling on dirt roads get a permit if you want more. The most I have ever worked on for a load with truck and trailer is 13 cords of very very dry Oak. Your logs would be rated as culls here because they are so small, but for fuel easy to handle. For fireplace use they should season and burn perfect. Thanks
 
Well I have considered splitting a piece as square as you can then measure the dimensions.
Calculate the cubic inches in the piece CU = L * W * H ( length * width * height )

Weight the piece -> W

Look up the fully dried density of the species in the units you are using. Convenient would be pounds / cubic inch.

calculate the weight of a piece fully dried WD = CU * Densisty

%moist = ( W - WD)/WD

Thats a lot of trouble but it should be accurate as a check on your moisture meter.

You would have to do an average of some random pieces. I've cut rounds from the same tree that did not have the same weight.
The core or center heartwood of a tree is dead wood. Only the bark and sapwood is the living part of a tree. Some heartwood rots or gets punky and some heartwood is solid. Some wood grows slower and is more dense then fast grown wood. Take pine, some pine is pitch wood and is much heavier then parts that are not saturated with sap or pitch.
 
W
My guess is #3.
My thinking is that the moisture/sap in the bark is what is predominantly feeding the leaves and growth.
View attachment 651521View attachment 651522

When I was delivering to the coast where as humidity was often in the 80% range the owner would never allow any unsplit wood on the property. It had to be split and cut to 22''. In the space that I see could easily handle 200 plus cords. Of course it took 6 skilled workers to stack 20 cords 2 or 3 hours not counting me. Our stacks were in the range of 40 to 50 feet high. It goes with out saying that a cord of mixed sold for at least $1000 so it was worthwhile to handle. Thanks
 
You would have to do an average of some random pieces. I've cut rounds from the same tree that did not have the same weight.
The core or center heartwood of a tree is dead wood. Only the bark and sapwood is the living part of a tree. Some heartwood rots or gets punky and some heartwood is solid. Some wood grows slower and is more dense then fast grown wood. Take pine, some pine is pitch wood and is much heavier then parts that are not saturated with sap or pitch.

Wood can not be measured very accurate by guessing on two similar sized wood pieces. Get a 20 gallon tub or close to it and carefully fill it with water to a fill line that is below the top. Then measure exactly a one or one and a half cubit feet of water and pour it into the tub and note the exact level of water in the tub and mark it. Grab a piece of wood and submerge it under water and when the water comes to the one cubic foot mark on the tub you have measured a one cubic foot piece of wood. Of course you will need to let it dry or weigh it before submerging. The other option is cutting a exact piece of wood square. Thanks
 

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