Fully Synthetic 2 Cycle Oil Vs Standard?

[bwalker]

If you insist mate ! All internal combustion engines oils are rated for specific engine service groups (Sae.) . Api-TC is the applicable group that my current choice " Sabre " qualifies . Api- EGB would be your European rating equivalent mate . As to larger automotive or commercial or industrial 2 cycle applications Api-CD or C. F. would apply as to most stringent standards . As a former Diesel Mechanic back in the day I serviced numerous industrial 2 cycle diesels in the Mining Sector for ventilation and auxiliary lighting gen sets .

API TC is long obsolete. Most of the OEM oil is jaso FC/FD which is alot better quality than API TC. Sabre Carrie's no certifications either.

 

[North by Northwest]

Two cycle oils are not subjected to high shear nor high pressure. Gear oils are.
I am well aware of castor's strengths. Which in no way over come its many issues when used in O P E.
Just for giggles what anti oxidant and water dispersent additives do you suppose are present in two cycle oils?

just for giggles Calcium Carbonate additive for anti oxident or non ionic sufactant additive for dispersant for phase separation control . These are common chemical additives utilized within numerous premium synthetic oils . I use Sabre over conventional Api- TD rated marine oils since it has these even in a TC Air cooled rated oil . P.S. Any high rpm small engine is subjected to High pressure and temperature , however the abilities of Castor or Syn oil is to resist the separation of these oils from the mating surfaces due to the solvancy of ethanol fuels is noted by numerous racing associations .

 

[bwalker]

Nothing wrong with Ultra , a very stout Premium Grade oil with the Jasco rating to back it . I however prefer Amsoil or Redmax due to $/litre costs . Most complaints I have heard were from exhaust screen and port carb on fouling due to over rich conditions . Fuel to Air or Fuel to Oil situations . Often attributed to High octane fuel usage which contribute further to these symptoms .

There is alot wrong with Ultra in a saw as many people have found out. Ultra is Jaso FB rated. Which is a 30+year old standard. It will not pass FC or FD.

 

[North by Northwest]

API TC is long obsolete. Most of the OEM oil is jaso FC/FD which is alot better quality than API TC. Sabre Carrie's no certifications either.

Whether or not it is obsolete today is not the point . It was in my day for its application as are other current ratings .

 

[North by Northwest]

There is alot qrong with Ultra in a saw as many people have found out. Ultra is Jaso FB rated. Which is a 30+year old standard. It will not pass FC or FD.

There is alot qrong with Ultra in a saw as many people have found out. Ultra is Jaso FB rated. Which is a 30+year old standard. It will not pass FC or FD.

Neither is Sae. 30 mineral oil which was used in numerous Saw Manufacturers in the 60,s along with use as bar oil until tactility technology allowed development of bar oils . Nothing wrong with Sae 30 either if you understood it limitations and downside , which was primarily smoking and carbon fouling issues requiring routine cleaning . The biggest complaint with Ultra is nuisance odour complaints . P.S. The most stringent oil standard currently is EGD which supersedes all Jasco ratings .

 

[full chizel]

Nothing wrong with Ultra , a very stout Premium Grade oil with the Jasco rating to back it . I however prefer Amsoil or Redmax due to $/litre costs . Most complaints I have heard were from exhaust screen and port carb on fouling due to over rich conditions . Fuel to Air or Fuel to Oil situations . Often attributed to High octane fuel usage which contribute further to these symptoms .

Yes it has a crappy Jaso FB rating to back it.

 

[MacAttack]

The only bad 2 cycle oil is the one you forget to mix into your gas or use to fill up your oil injection tank.

 

[Ted Jenkins]

It really makes little to no difference whatsoever what oil one chooses to run in their chainsaws. Is Homelite saws better than Stihl or Husqvarna or not. All saws have an important factor to the owner. One owner wants a saw to cut fallen limbs around his house another cuts logs for a living. They are not the same. In race motors extreme conditions exist that almost can not be forecasted. On liquid cooled motors engineers try to build a set up that can function well in extreme conditions, but with jetting just right motors still will score the cylinder walls. A motor often cools down after decelerating then suddenly it goes to full throttle and RPM which will often cause internal damage. With chain saws not the case. They are air cooled which is a good thing. All mix ratios have their pros and cons as well as all oils. One oil shines for one application another shines in yet another direction. Few here at AS will ever wear out their saw motor with a decent brand of oil with a decent mix ratio. If one over lubricates the engine will create more carbon than the one that is running lean. For me I shy away from synthetics because they are not all compatible with other oils. For the person who likes fully synthetic oil in all their equipment it will work fine, but not always can be mixed with another brand or non synthetic. Thanks

 

[huskihl]

Ultra is a great lubricant, like for drill bits and such.

Not so great when it gets ignited repeatedly

 

[RedFir Down]

Here is what stihl Ultra looks like.
Look at the bottom of the ring land and notice the wear.
It had 90 PSI of compression and would not run (obviously). Low hour machine too.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[huskihl]

Ms362 I ported in April run on Ultra

I’d be nervous about a thicker piece of carbon flaking off and potentially smearing up the piston or sticking the rings

 

[MacAttack]

Here is what stihl Ultra looks like.
Look at the bottom of the ring land and notice the wear.
It had 90 PSI of compression and would not run (obviously). Low hour machine too.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Is that your saw that you ran personally, or one that you're fixing for a customer or the like?

 

[bwalker]

just for giggles Calcium Carbonate additive for anti oxident or non ionic sufactant additive for dispersant for phase separation control . These are common chemical additives utilized within numerous premium synthetic oils . I use Sabre over conventional Api- TD rated marine oils since it has these even in a TC Air cooled rated oil . P.S. Any high rpm small engine is subjected to High pressure and temperature , however the abilities of Castor or Syn oil is to resist the separation of these oils from the mating surfaces due to the solvancy of ethanol fuels is noted by numerous racing associations . P.S.S. How many Upper, s does it take to screw in a lite bulb ?

Calcium carbonate is not used in two cycle oils. Calcium sulfanates are. Neither are an anti oxidant.
And no, the oil in a two cycle motor is not subject to high pressure at all.
Castor and synthetics are actually more affected by ethanol than mineral based oils.

 

[bwalker]

E

Neither is Sae. 30 mineral oil which was used in numerous Saw Manufacturers in the 60,s along with use as bar oil until tactility technology allowed development of bar oils . Nothing wrong with Sae 30 either if you understood it limitations and downside . The biggest complaint with Ultra is nuisance odour complaints . P.S. The most stringent oil standard currently is EGD which supersedes as Jasco ratings .

Actually no EGD and Jaso FD are the same rating using the same tests.

 

[bwalker]

Here is what stihl Ultra looks like.
Look at the bottom of the ring land and notice the wear.
It had 90 PSI of compression and would not run (obviously). Low hour machine too.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

FB oils had issues with port blocking like that often. I had a three wheeler when Inwas a kid that had the exhaust port almost completely blocked off.

 

[bwalker]

E

Neither is Sae. 30 mineral oil which was used in numerous Saw Manufacturers in the 60,s along with use as bar oil until tactility technology allowed development of bar oils . Nothing wrong with Sae 30 either if you understood it limitations and downside . The biggest complaint with Ultra is nuisance odour complaints . P.S. The most stringent oil standard currently is EGD which supersedes as Jasco ratings .

Sae 30w in a two cycle sucked too. I tore apart a Wajax brand fire pump that was powered by a 300cc single cylinder Bombardier engine that was ran its entire life in 30w. It was possibly the nastiest two cycle I had ever been in. By the looks of it it didnt have many hours on it either, but it had no compression due to the rings being completely stuck in their grooves.

 

[Kenskip1]

Just curious as to how others feel about using fully synthetic 2 cycle oil in their chainsaws? Would this not be recommended for a saw breakin period if there is one, if used? Amsoil makes some good synthetic oils I’ve been told.

Thanks for any opinions.

Mike

I have been using Amsoil Saber at 40/1 for the past 15 years without a single oil related issue.

 

[North by Northwest]

It really makes little to no difference whatsoever what oil one chooses to run in their chainsaws. Is Homelite saws better than Stihl or Husqvarna or not. All saws have an important factor to the owner. One owner wants a saw to cut fallen limbs around his house another cuts logs for a living. They are not the same. In race motors extreme conditions exist that almost can not be forecasted. On liquid cooled motors engineers try to build a set up that can function well in extreme conditions, but with jetting just right motors still will score the cylinder walls. A motor often cools down after decelerating then suddenly it goes to full throttle and RPM which will often cause internal damage. With chain saws not the case. They are air cooled which is a good thing. All mix ratios have their pros and cons as well as all oils. One oil shines for one application another shines in yet another direction. Few here at AS will ever wear out their saw motor with a decent brand of oil with a decent mix ratio. If one over lubricates the engine will create more carbon than the one that is running lean. For me I shy away from synthetics because they are not all compatible with other oils. For the person who likes fully synthetic oil in all their equipment it will work fine, but not always can be mixed with another brand or non synthetic. Thanks

Ted I agree , if you have an older engine that has been accustomed to mineral oil , there will be residual residue or carbon that can cause issues , when some synthetics oils are introduced . Foaming is very prevalent with small engine splash lubrication systems such as lawnmowers and tillers etc . Good post Bud !

 

[North by Northwest]

Sae 30w in a two cycle sucked too. I tore apart a Wajax brand fire pump that was powered by a 300cc single cylinder Bombardier engine that was ran its entire life in 30w. It was possibly the nastiest two cycle I had ever been in. By the looks of it it didnt have many hours on it either, but it had no compression due to the rings being completely stuck in their grooves.

Again nothing wrong with Sae. usage with Bombardier " Rotax " Air cooled engines , however the Oil service intervals had to be maintained back then . Carbon fouling of heads & rings was routine . Been there done that a hundred times back in the day , over my 65 yrs , where have you been dude ? Anyhow Michigander , " Here ends the Lesson " Have a Merry Xmas and even better New Yr ! Until we meet again at Deer Camp in Hessel or Houghton Lake .

 

[North by Northwest]

Actually no EGD and Jaso FD are the same rating using the same tests.

Wrong , Try again Sport !