When will we quit taking dates to the lumber dept when we want to take them to someplace expensive?
All jokes aside now - prices are ridiculous.
All jokes aside now - prices are ridiculous.
When will lumber prices normalize?
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When demand is met by production and more importantly transportation, hopefully not anytime soon.
A good while after the Covid scare is over when they get caught up.
there is not a shortage of raw materials, labor or transportation...the lumber mills are in kahoots on the inflated prices not the stores. The looming housing bubble and economy down turn will crash the prices but not before the lumber mill corporations bank billions in profits.
Go ahead and find a flat bed truck to haul lumber. Then find a driver willing to pull 14hr days 6 days a week from here to florida and back again.
While your at it find about 3000 trained and ready employees that can run a head rig, debarker, green chain, grade lumber, millwrights, and a few forman to run the show nights and weekends.
And thats just the mill side of things.
Every mill around here is hiring, and they have been for YEARS.
Every trucking outfit is hiring " " " " " "
Now couple that with the housing market going completely ape S, not to mention all the projects put on hold durring covid lockdown, with all the projects that are regularly scheduled. As well as the middle class being largely stuck on work from home, staring at that ugly fence/deck/needed office etc.
It's simple economics you just need to pay attention to the factors.
As far as Transportation, there ain’t no driver shortage, and I am, and have been a driver for 33 years
What there IS, is a PAY SHORTAGE, if the pay is right, you will have as many drivers as you want.
Yep, prices are ridiculous on a lot of things, and drivers want Nice Things as much as anyone else, pay them enough that they can have some of those Nice Things themselves, and you will have no “Driver Shortage”
Adding to the “Driver Shortage” is all the BS Talk about how trucks will be driving themselves within the next 5 years, and that we won’t NEED Truck Drivers anymore (Dayum, I wish that my AS emojis were working).
Having been in the industry over 3 Decades, I don’t believe that NONSENSE, I figure that I have about 12-14 years left in my career, and I don’t consider “Self Driving Trucks” to be a factor at all in the time that I have left working.
I can see though that someone gullible enough to BELIEVE that BS, wouldn’t want to get into a career that has such a Short life expectancy
So, PLEASE keep Scaring away any potential fresh blood for the industry, it definitely helps keep the Wages up for those of us with Experience, and who are willing to Work.
The Good Paying jobs ARE out there for those Qualified, where else are you going to make 100K on a High School Diploma?
The ones that can’t find drivers, are the ones that aren’t willing to pay for their drivers.
Good Drivers aren’t Cheap,
And Cheap Drivers aren’t Good
If you think that Good Drivers are Expensive, wait until you see just how Expensive a $18/hour driver is when you get the Repair Bills on a $150,000 tractor and $50-100,000 trailers
Doug
What there IS, is a PAY SHORTAGE, if the pay is right, you will have as many drivers as you want.
Yep, prices are ridiculous on a lot of things, and drivers want Nice Things as much as anyone else, pay them enough that they can have some of those Nice Things themselves, and you will have no “Driver Shortage”
Adding to the “Driver Shortage” is all the BS Talk about how trucks will be driving themselves within the next 5 years, and that we won’t NEED Truck Drivers anymore (Dayum, I wish that my AS emojis were working).
Having been in the industry over 3 Decades, I don’t believe that NONSENSE, I figure that I have about 12-14 years left in my career, and I don’t consider “Self Driving Trucks” to be a factor at all in the time that I have left working.
I can see though that someone gullible enough to BELIEVE that BS, wouldn’t want to get into a career that has such a Short life expectancy
So, PLEASE keep Scaring away any potential fresh blood for the industry, it definitely helps keep the Wages up for those of us with Experience, and who are willing to Work.
The Good Paying jobs ARE out there for those Qualified, where else are you going to make 100K on a High School Diploma?
The ones that can’t find drivers, are the ones that aren’t willing to pay for their drivers.
Good Drivers aren’t Cheap,
And Cheap Drivers aren’t Good
If you think that Good Drivers are Expensive, wait until you see just how Expensive a $18/hour driver is when you get the Repair Bills on a $150,000 tractor and $50-100,000 trailers
Doug
cough, and the super trucker has arrived.
cool you drive truck, guess what, so do I, I do because I can't find anybody that can drive without getting tickets, stop doing drugs, pass a physical, all while not getting me killed through stupidity.
take a good look around, lots of trucks yeah, what are they hauling?
certainly isn't lumber.
yet EVERY major trucking company has been hiring for literally decades, so what is it that keeps up this driver shortage?, isn't money otr can pay very well, but you have to show up, most dont.
local drivers, especially union drivers, make bank, annnd they get to stay close to home, and generally a shop, yet they to are in demand? why could that possibly be.
furthermore, not just mills and trucking are hiring around here, everyone is, yet no ones applying?
maybe, just maybe, we need to pay people better
or maybe there just isn't enough people?
Awe c’mon Northman, I have always shown you and your profession Respect, I’m no “Super Trucker” I don’t sit with the air seat bottomed out, shifting with a stick above my ears, I don’t have a fake “Train Horn”, or those ridiculous fiberglass fenders that make it impossible to chain up the tractor.
My first 14 years, were with a food service company delivering to Arctic Circle, Burger King, Burgerville, Wendy’s and Arby’s all over OR, WA, Western ID and Northern Californicated. Then 14 years of driving for the foam plant to OR, WA, ID and UT, then in 2016, the plant was sold and the new company used a National Logistics Company for their transportation needs, that company recruited me to stay on dedicated to the foam plant. The foam plant closed in April of 2020, and I am now a “Pool Driver “ for the logistics company. I have my Doubles/Triples, Tank and Haz-Mat. In the last year I have pulled 40/20 flatbed, 35/27’s with groceries, and tires for different accounts, box trucks for tele-comm deliveries, and right now I am in Medford, OR doing Auto Parts deliveries.
I have a lot of experience in many types of trucks, I go where I am needed to get the job done, but the term “Super Trucker” is Insulting, and I believe that you know that
either OTR, suddenly started paying better, or we have different opinions of what doing well is, I have never run OTR, but the OTR drivers that I have talked with, sure didn’t make it sound all that lucrative, especially considering how much time they spend away from Family and Home. OTR drivers are definitely under paid for their working conditions
I don’t recall how long you have been in your industry, but as I remember, it has been a Dayumed long time, I Respect that. I have been in my profession for a dayumed long time, but evidently that doesn’t deserve the same respect
Doug
My first 14 years, were with a food service company delivering to Arctic Circle, Burger King, Burgerville, Wendy’s and Arby’s all over OR, WA, Western ID and Northern Californicated. Then 14 years of driving for the foam plant to OR, WA, ID and UT, then in 2016, the plant was sold and the new company used a National Logistics Company for their transportation needs, that company recruited me to stay on dedicated to the foam plant. The foam plant closed in April of 2020, and I am now a “Pool Driver “ for the logistics company. I have my Doubles/Triples, Tank and Haz-Mat. In the last year I have pulled 40/20 flatbed, 35/27’s with groceries, and tires for different accounts, box trucks for tele-comm deliveries, and right now I am in Medford, OR doing Auto Parts deliveries.
I have a lot of experience in many types of trucks, I go where I am needed to get the job done, but the term “Super Trucker” is Insulting, and I believe that you know that
either OTR, suddenly started paying better, or we have different opinions of what doing well is, I have never run OTR, but the OTR drivers that I have talked with, sure didn’t make it sound all that lucrative, especially considering how much time they spend away from Family and Home. OTR drivers are definitely under paid for their working conditions
I don’t recall how long you have been in your industry, but as I remember, it has been a Dayumed long time, I Respect that. I have been in my profession for a dayumed long time, but evidently that doesn’t deserve the same respect
Doug
Dude, you need to get that local deliveries & over the road, which is what I’m presuming OTR means, is a totally different ballgame than hauling logs or moving equipment.
Log haulers are up and moving quite frankly too damn early in the morning trying to get loads to a mill before the rest of the logging crew is on site so they can stay the hell out of the way, which is especially critical when somebody’s running a high lead crew on a landing the size of a postage stamp.
Then, the drivers have to make it up up or down ****** little switchback roads whicn are gravel on a good day, and did I mention they’re usually heavy? I don’t mean like a reefer trailer over a dry van, I mean like cramming the truck in 3 under on an 18 speed with the jake on high and still riding the service brake a little to not gain speed. Ten speeds aren’t really enough in this world. Big cajones and a high level of skill are required to drive logs or move logging equipment, especially where Matt is located.
I’m not hot on calling anybody a super trucker, but the fact is that your posts suggest that you are ignorant of the specifics of the job. It doesn’t mean for one second you’re a bad driver, however finding drivers to haul logs or any other specialty load is pretty hard.
Log haulers are up and moving quite frankly too damn early in the morning trying to get loads to a mill before the rest of the logging crew is on site so they can stay the hell out of the way, which is especially critical when somebody’s running a high lead crew on a landing the size of a postage stamp.
Then, the drivers have to make it up up or down ****** little switchback roads whicn are gravel on a good day, and did I mention they’re usually heavy? I don’t mean like a reefer trailer over a dry van, I mean like cramming the truck in 3 under on an 18 speed with the jake on high and still riding the service brake a little to not gain speed. Ten speeds aren’t really enough in this world. Big cajones and a high level of skill are required to drive logs or move logging equipment, especially where Matt is located.
I’m not hot on calling anybody a super trucker, but the fact is that your posts suggest that you are ignorant of the specifics of the job. It doesn’t mean for one second you’re a bad driver, however finding drivers to haul logs or any other specialty load is pretty hard.
windthrown
361 Junkie
Yep, You nailed it. Loggers, land owners, truckers and Home Depot are not making any more money off these high prices. Log prices now are about as low as they have ever been if you factor for inflation. Its the mills. Just look at the profits and the stock prices of the likes of GP and Weyerehauser. They are absolutely through the roof. They are also the greedy sods marking up the lumber prices and making the fat profits, along with Wall Street.
I think another factor to consider is all the "free" money the feds printed for the Covid relief packages. Throw a couple natural disasters in and there's a perfect storm for inflated prices.
It's called capitalism and free market. Prices go up as long as people will pay them. Profits are the most important thing in the world in our country. Must pay the stockholders their dividends, and some of us are stockholders in various stuff. It's how our economy works. To change that would be considered evil and unAmerican.
If you were a lumber mill, wouldn't you be charging as much as you possibly could?
If you were a lumber mill, wouldn't you be charging as much as you possibly could?
Free money at the cost of inflation!
dogone
ArboristSite Lurker
Finding people to work! An eternal problem these days. Farmers have many problems similar to logging and trucking.
Just finding someone who will show up is just the start. Finding someone with half a brain is the next problem.
Money is a factor but $100 an hour won’t get you an employee 10 times better than a $10 employee.
Just finding someone who will show up is just the start. Finding someone with half a brain is the next problem.
Money is a factor but $100 an hour won’t get you an employee 10 times better than a $10 employee.
Bill Gates has taken your advice. Anti-trust laws don't apply to him, so he might as well buy/rule the world. He's been purchasing hundreds of thousands of acres of land at an alarming rate... and not just farm land... forest as well.
Weyerhauser, Cascade(Gates subsidiary), etc., etc., they all might as well purchase all of the land and hoard as much of the wealth as they can. It's important to keep us peasants housed in our cubicles in one central location. (we'll all be in cubicles soon, so don't get uppity if you own land) !!!
That's why they say its good to have a business man for president. Capitalists can then have favorable legislation/laws which allow them to come into an area, and within a decade, own everything. A business man will keep parlaying money into investments over and over until he squeezes everyone out of existence. Its the American way.
Concentrating the world's wealth into the hands of a select few. It's the American way... capitalism.
You know, like if I see you are struggling financially because your beautiful wife has been struck with a terrible illness... "shazam" here's my chance to come a side-shufflin up your driveway, with a big greasy smile, hussy up to you, swoop in and buy all of your stuff for pennies, and act like I'm helping you. You know, capitalism at its best.
.
When the democrats are not in power things will get better
At this point, the various country's around the world are run by businesses and wealthy folk (puppet masters), not political parties.
Super trucker is an insult, but it shouldn't be offensive unless you feel called out.
Seeing the world behind the wheel of a truck doesn't make you wise, doesn't matter how many miles you travel if 90% of them are Freeway, more so if its dedicated routes.
OTR can pay well, but like I said you have to show up and get your loads, most do not, some do and then blow money on rediculous crap like 16' shift levers, and 3' tall visors, then complain about not making any money. Others get it, put that money into a reliable truck, then continue to get it, you won't hear them talking about it cause they are busy getting on with the getting it, instead of squatting at the nearest watering hole to a Pilot/FlyingJ blowing what little money they did make on brewskies with the other broke drivers.
Spent most of my childhood living in or near truck stops, I've heard all the boring stories about underpay, knocking out the local drugie/biker/redneck/farmer gangs, and backing down an alley at 2am with one working brake light, by the same types of people for over 40 years... its a snooze fest of epic proportions, and most of its lies anyway.
Whats the going rate for OTR these days? $.54 a mile 700mi a day $378 a day IF you do your job right, more if you can get a long freeway run, $2268 per week, or in laymans terms $37.80 an hour, which is about what folks make at the Big Boeing, wich is pretty damned good money for farting in someone elses seats.
If you wan't to go O-O I hear the pay per mile is closer to $2.50... believe me fuel and tires doesn't make up that much of the difference.
Anyway, I kind of apologize for the rant, but truckers irritate the **** out of me.
As for the rest of this thread, its gone entirely political and therefore mostly hot air redirected from an overpaid windbag.
What does separate those that can hack it and those that can't with trucks is an actual ability to self start, and discipline in time management, driving the trucks is the easy part, damned things handle better then my PowerSmoke or even the war Dept beloved Volvo, Ride better too.
But like I said you have to show up, dispatch isn't stupid, if they need a reliable driver to show up and get a load moved, they aint calling timmy thats been late to the last 4 pickups and 7 drop offs, timmy might not get a load for a week or more, Thats that bit about showing up that I mentioned earlier. Most folks when left to their own devises will end up ****ing off 20 hours a day, rather then actually getting any work done.
Its a lot easier to work at O'rielly's and make $16 an hour to hand out the wrong parts, but all you have to do is clock in on time, at the same place everyday.
But like I said you have to show up, dispatch isn't stupid, if they need a reliable driver to show up and get a load moved, they aint calling timmy thats been late to the last 4 pickups and 7 drop offs, timmy might not get a load for a week or more, Thats that bit about showing up that I mentioned earlier. Most folks when left to their own devises will end up ****ing off 20 hours a day, rather then actually getting any work done.
Its a lot easier to work at O'rielly's and make $16 an hour to hand out the wrong parts, but all you have to do is clock in on time, at the same place everyday.
ChoppyChoppy
Tree Freak
$18/hr is more than many drivers make.
You'd need to be in the .70+ cpm area to be over that
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