Sharpening questions

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Jibber

ArboristSite Member
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Feb 22, 2007
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Location
Putnam County, New York
I can't figure it. I guess I'm just lousy at sharpening STIHL chains. I don't much of a problem with Husqvarna, using one of those little blue guide devices that they sell. With Stihl however, I use just the regular file kit. Sometimes I get a good bite after I sharpen it.. Sometimes I don't. Let's put it this way.. If I use a new chain or have the chain sharpened at the local Stihl dealer, it cuts way better and for a much longer period of time.

OK.. now my questions.. and forgive me if these have all been asked and answered before. I did a forum search and really couldn't find a good answer.

1) How does the dealer sharpen chains? I take it they have a mechanism. Is it similar to those grinders made by Oregon? I see them in the Northern Tool Catalog.. Northern's chinese made version goes for under a hundred bucks, the Oregon's go for various prices up to nearly 400 bucks. I might be interested in one if I thought it was the answer to a really good sharpened chain every time.

2) What am I doing wrong? I sharpen at the prescribed angles.. lift on the return stroke. Are there common errors that I am making? Or is a hand sharpened chain just NOT going to perform like a shop sharpened chain?

Any help is appreciated. Also, Recently using one of my saws on big hard wood.. 18" and larger.. it doesn't want to cut straight.. seems to tail off to one side at the bottom of the cut. Not sure what that's all about.. the bar is true and all the cutters seem to be the same length.
 
How tall are your rakes?

Are you using the right size file for your chain?

Are you sharping all the teeth standing on the same side of the bar?

are you sharpening far enough to remove the damaged area from the tooth?

Did you read your owners manual? (they usually cover sharpening real well)

I can file sharpen just the same the dealers grinder can, some times better if the kid on the grinder is an idiot. and a chain last longer if you file it your self. My dealer takes 1/3 the chain no matter what, plus you hit the dirt less often if you have to do it.
 
How tall are your rakes?

Are you using the right size file for your chain?

Are you sharping all the teeth standing on the same side of the bar?

are you sharpening far enough to remove the damaged area from the tooth?

Did you read your owners manual? (they usually cover sharpening real well)

yep.. right file.. I have different drawers for different saws/chains.. but generally use the same Stihl chains on my saws (albeit different lengths).

not sure what you mean "standing on the same side of the bar". I file all of one side.. then move the saw to file all the other side.. I make sure I'm filing UP.. lift the file on the downstroke..

I will admit I don't file the rakes each time out.. but I do file them.. the tools Stihl gives you in the file sharpening kits are so crude.. it's hard to be exact.. but I do file them. And yes.. I'm an owners manual maniac.. I know them word for word.. everything.. even stupid stuff you buy and know well ahead of time how to operate.. I read them.. do everything by the book.

I agree my Stihl shop grinds a lot of chain to achieve that perfect bite.. but it is a perfect bite.. so nice to work with a chain like that.. I really want it ALL THE TIME.

I wish Stihl would come up with a "blue hickey guide device" like husqvarna sells.. it seems to really help sharpening idiots like me get a better edge.
 
I'm pretty sure They're color coded. The blue one is for 3/8" chains. Silver for .325". The ones I have now, I had to file the grooves wider so that they fit down on the chains all the way. Filing the rakers with that guide is kind of a PITA but I do it all the time. I like the rollers because......well....just because. And I like the HARD and SOFT wood feature. If you're chains cut a curve, you're not sharpening them right. Probably the rakers. With the Cheesy Husky guide, I can get them very sharp and smooth. The only thing is, after a few sharpenings, the cutters get radiused. I put them on the grinder to get them square again.

Edit: To clarify, I'm talking about the Husky file guide.
 
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I used to use an Oregon Filing Guide that clamps onto the Bar, for a lot of years. Six years ago, I decided to get one of those Tecomec FL 136 (same out fit as the Efco FL 136 and made by the same Company) Bench Grinders. I wished I had gotten it 20 Years Prior, to when I bought it.
If you buy one, buy a good one, and not one of those cheap outfits, because you may not be happy with it, and Wish you bought a better one in the first place. Spend your money once, instead of buying something, and replacing it later, and wish you went the route in the first place. This is only my opinion though.
Also if you do buy one, Practice on an old chain first. If you ruin that old chain, no Biggie. That is what I did, when I bought mine.
When you set up your grinder to sharpen your chain, place the Grinding Wheel down, in the grove of the chain, and raise and lower the Power Head, with the Adjusting Screw. Using the Cutter Back stop, slide the chain forward, until the Cutter slightly touches the Grinding Wheel.
Lock the Chain in place. Start the Grinder, and with short strokes, run the Power head up and down, until the Cutter is ground. Look under the edge of the Cutter Face, and make sure that the whole cutter is ground nicely. If not, loosen the chain slightly, and turn the adjustment screw for the Back Stop, moves slightly, and repeat with Grinding to Cutter again.
Once you have the whole Cutter ground nicely, you are set to go and sharpen the whole chain then. I hope this helps you. Bruce
 
If you're chains cut a curve, you're not sharpening them right. Probably the rakers. With the Cheesy Husky guide, I can get them very sharp and smooth. The only thing is, after a few sharpenings, the cutters get radiused. I put them on the grinder to get them square again.

You may be dead on. I'm not good on the rakers. I use the blue thingy to size them up.. but file them without the guide in place.. so they are NOT squared off. I'll try correcting that mistake first.




When you set up your grinder to sharpen your chain, place the Grinding Wheel down, in the grove of the chain, and raise and lower the Power Head, with the Adjusting Screw. Using the Cutter Back stop, slide the chain forward, until the Cutter slightly touches the Grinding Wheel.
Lock the Chain in place. Start the Grinder, and with short strokes, run the Power head up and down, until the Cutter is ground. Look under the edge of the Cutter Face, and make sure that the whole cutter is ground nicely. If not, loosen the chain slightly, and turn the adjustment screw for the Back Stop, moves slightly, and repeat with Grinding to Cutter again.
Once you have the whole Cutter ground nicely, you are set to go and sharpen the whole chain then. I hope this helps you. Bruce

That's what I'm looking for.. step by step.. and I will look at the higher priced line. I agree you get what you pay for.. I saw in another thread from someone who bought the cheap Northern branded chinese unit that it had manufacturing defects that he had to correct. I've had the same issues with other chinese made tools .. the kind of stuff you find at Harbor Freight.
 
I used to use an Oregon Filing Guide that clamps onto the Bar, for a lot of years. Six years ago, I decided to get one of those Tecomec FL 136 (same out fit as the Efco FL 136 and made by the same Company) Bench Grinders. I wished I had gotten it 20 Years Prior, to when I bought it.

Is the Tecomec the same as the Oregon bench Grinders? I search for Tecomec and I come up with Italian websites.. but can't seem to find the grinders anywhere (baileys, northern, amazon). I did pull up a PDF off of an Italian website and it LOOKS a whole lot like the Oregon grinder.
 
The most important thing that Husky guide do for you is keeping the file at the correct higth - I supect that may be the problem with your Stihl set-up.

It is easy to modify the blue Husky guide for use on 3/8" RSC, RM etc chain, but you need to know exactly what you are doing to get it right (fokus on file higth).
Some even have stated that they work well as is - but I don't quite agree with that.
 
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2) What am I doing wrong? I sharpen at the prescribed angles.. lift on the return stroke. Are there common errors that I am making? Or is a hand sharpened chain just NOT going to perform like a shop sharpened chain?

Are you saying that you file once in each direction on the same tooth? I think it's acceptable to push the file either outside-in or inside-out when filing, but not both directions at each filing. Of course, maybe I misunderstood your description.

If you're chains cut a curve, you're not sharpening them right. Probably the rakers...

I would tend to believe that it would be more of problem with uneven cutter lengths than the rakers.
 
Also, Recently using one of my saws on big hard wood.. 18" and larger.. it doesn't want to cut straight.. seems to tail off to one side at the bottom of the cut. Not sure what that's all about.. the bar is true and all the cutters seem to be the same length.

If your bar is true, and your cutters are equal length and rakers set right then I would suggest your bar groove is too worn. If you want to see this effect magnified many times try running an 050 chain in an 063 grooved bar, the cut will become so curved that the bar won't cut any further. It's more evident in hardwood because unless you have a razor sharp chain you tend to hoik a little more on the CS and that twists the chain in the groove.
 
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If your bar is true, and your cutters are equal length and rakers set right then I would suggest your bar groove is too worn. If you want to see this effect magnified many times try running an 050 chain in an 063 grooved bar, the cut will become so curved that the bar won't cut any further. It's more evident in hardwood because unless you have a razor sharp chain you tend to hoik a little more on the CS and that twists the chain in the groove.


:agree2:

....but could be different angles or sharpness between the sides as well.
 
:agree2:

....but could be different angles or sharpness between the sides as well.

Yep :agree2:

Something else that can cause this is uneven chain tie wear (the ties on one side are worn slightly more than the other) and then the old chain is transferred to a new or redressed bar, wha!!!! can't cut straight!:cry:
 
I might be interested in one if I thought it was the answer to a really good sharpened chain every time.


A grinder sharpened chain will never be as sharp as a hand filed chain so I would forget the grinder. Never use mine (Oregon 511A).
 
A grinder sharpened chain will never be as sharp as a hand filed chain so I would forget the grinder. Never use mine (Oregon 511A).
I used to think that, and I file sharpened for years. However, the small Granberg rotary grinder will come awfully close to a hand filed sharpening, and the gauge bar can be set so that the teeth are always left the same size.
 
The most important thing that Husky guide do for you is keeping the file at the correct higth - I supect that may be the problem with your Stihl set-up.

It is easy to modify the blue Husky guide for use on 3/8" RSC, RM etc chain, but you need to know exactly what you are doing to get it right (fokus on file higth).
Some even have stated that they work well as is - but I don't quite agree with that.

+1
I like the Husky guide so I use it on both Oregon and Stihl chains. When I cut 3/8" RMC, I use a smaller file then recommended. I have no problem with my .325" guide.

The raker guide thing is a cheesy little plate that flexes if you push on it hard. What I do is file the rakers with my thumb and index and middle fingers on my left hand on the file. I don't hold the guide at all. I use both hands on the file. I push pretty hard and when the file won't cut any more, I'm done with that raker. I takes a lot of patience to get the rakers right, especially after you just got done with all the cutters. That's the thing with the electric grinder. It's easy to take a lot off the cutters but then you spend the next half hour getting the rakers filed down.

Also, most grinders spin one way. That means that you grind half the cutters the wrong way. I always follow up with a file and guide after grinding, to raise the chrome into a burr. The cutters should be filed in the direction away from the power head. So file forward if the saw was in your hands.

Using some kind of guide on the rakers is MANDATORY!
You can't eyeball them. It's just not possible and that's coming from a guy with a pretty good eye.

Good luck.
 
Getting a very good picture/view of what your doing is required with grinding or filing.

Good lighting, reading glasses if you need them, jewelers lopes if you have to.

Understand where the file needs to be to get the results your looking for and your there!
 
If you're gonna buy a grinder: In order of preference

1) Silvey Model 510 Round Chain Grinder $895.95

2) Speed Sharp Star Chain Grinder $369.95

3) Oregon 511X Chain Grinder $399.95

Remember: YOU ONLY BUY IT ONCE


A really bright light does help.
And a grinder sharpened chain is close enough to a hand sharpened chain to render the point mute.

Alot depends on how many chains you have to sharpen every night.
 
I don't think the bar is that worn, it was new (Stihl ES) last season with a new chain. It's only cut maybe three cord. The cutters seem equal in length..no significant damage. I'm pretty careful about avoiding rocks and dirt. I'm going to do a better job with the rakers and see if that does it.

I do have the stihl depth gauge thingy. Will use that WITH the file and hopefully that will make a difference. I'll try a new chain with the bar too and see if that fixes the wayward cutting on bigger hard stuff.

My attraction to the Oregon grinder is the comments made in this forum about how the chain stays sharp LONGER. I love the way a new chain cuts for quite a long period before you have to file it. There must be some difference in the quality of the edge over hand filed chains. But, I do agree that getting chains sharpened at the dealer reduces the life span of the chain. They really take a lot of metal off.
 
I do agree that getting chains sharpened at the dealer reduces the life span of the chain. They really take a lot of metal off.

Grinding, you do need to take them all down to the cleared up size of the worst cutter, were filing you can give each one what they need.

Grinding were there is any color from heat will effect how long the cutter stays sharp.

Heat the color of a pale gopher-tooth yellow might not effect thing to much, but a blued cutter will temper the cutter softer then you want.
 
What size files do the Stihl 3/8 chain take?Went over to my brother-in-laws last weekend and he was cutting with a dull chain on his 031AV with the Stihl E bar and oregon chain both 3/8,I told him I would sharpen it for him and he said he had a file&joint sharpener that did not seem to work so I looked at it(I have the older version)and he had it all :censored: up so I got it right and started to file his chain and it did not look right so I pulled the file and it said 3/16 on it.It did not look right to me so I went and got one of my new 7/32 files and it worked just fine.Showed him how to use the thing and gave him my new file.Mybe this should be under-funny saw stories.:chainsaw:
 
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