Michigan man dead after tree he was cutting fell on him
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Treetom
ArboristSite Guru
Sad story. Just down the road from here. Prolly on the news tonite.
I'm sorry if the question I'm about to ask offends anyone, but can someone please inform me of circumstances that would allow a tree to fall on the faller when being cut down?
I can completely understand how a faller can get hit by a falling tree: you've made your backcut, you stand near the stump, the stem kicks back and kills you.
But what I can not understand, even after years of reading these fatality reports, is how a falling tree can kill the faller. In other words, the way I read this is that the faller got crushed by the falling tree. Right? So, how does that happen. You made your undercut, your making your backcut, if the tree starts coming towards you, don't you have time to get out of the way? If you read the lean wrong, doesn't your chain get pinched long before the tree breaks free and starts falling?
Again, I am not asking this to offend. I'm sure there are those amoungst us who have lost a friend or family member in the woods. It's just that these reports never REALLY say what happened.
I can completely understand how a faller can get hit by a falling tree: you've made your backcut, you stand near the stump, the stem kicks back and kills you.
But what I can not understand, even after years of reading these fatality reports, is how a falling tree can kill the faller. In other words, the way I read this is that the faller got crushed by the falling tree. Right? So, how does that happen. You made your undercut, your making your backcut, if the tree starts coming towards you, don't you have time to get out of the way? If you read the lean wrong, doesn't your chain get pinched long before the tree breaks free and starts falling?
Again, I am not asking this to offend. I'm sure there are those amoungst us who have lost a friend or family member in the woods. It's just that these reports never REALLY say what happened.
PA Plumber
Addicted to ArboristSite
Can't give you every circumstance, but I can give you a personal story.
Was dropping a Hemlock with a double leader. It wasn't huge, but each side was over 18" diameter with a stump of around 30 some inches.
Where I was cutting was about 4' down from the top of the split. I figured the tree would be a single trunk a couple of inches above the ground.
Put in the face, started the back cut and the uphill leader separated from the down hill leader.
It sat on my saw and started to spin. I began to run, stopped, looked up, changed my mind, the tree continued to spin. Started to run in another direction, stopped, looked up and the tree switched headings and then finally committed to a falling angle.
I headed up hill, and, as it turned out, went through the fall zone of the leader, but was safely up hill by the time it was on the ground.
From when the tree separated to when it was on the ground was just a few very short seconds. Thankfully there was clear escape path all around the trunk.
That experience scared the pants off of me. I do still cut doubles, but my heart slams in my earmuffs the whole time.
treemandan
Tree Freak
RIP
To help answer the question: Maybe he was just driving in and something fell on him. Maybe he was killed when piece broke out of the top on the tree he was working on. Maybe he slipped and fell in the DZ. Maybe the tree was hung up in another and when he cut it fell back on him. Maybe he cut it and it didn't go in the direction he thought it would go.
Now if you want to hear something that sounds bad:
I am sort of relieved it seems that most deaths like this are not happening to us professionalls but rather the non-professionalls. It seems that even when its a real tree guy the guy was up to no good or untrained mexican. that makes me feel better somehow.
To help answer the question: Maybe he was just driving in and something fell on him. Maybe he was killed when piece broke out of the top on the tree he was working on. Maybe he slipped and fell in the DZ. Maybe the tree was hung up in another and when he cut it fell back on him. Maybe he cut it and it didn't go in the direction he thought it would go.
Now if you want to hear something that sounds bad:
I am sort of relieved it seems that most deaths like this are not happening to us professionalls but rather the non-professionalls. It seems that even when its a real tree guy the guy was up to no good or untrained mexican. that makes me feel better somehow.
Thanks for the responses. It was a difficult question for me to ask because I know there are a million and one ways that things can go wrong. It always seems to me that these reports of fatalities are lacking in detail to such a large extent that nothing can be learned from them. And, if that's the case, then the report is nothing other than sensationalism, like rubber necking on the highway when driving by a wreck.
PAPlumber's story is some information I can use. I've never had to cut a multiple leader tree, but I can tell you now, I'll be much more aware of the added danger if I have to.
PAPlumber's story is some information I can use. I've never had to cut a multiple leader tree, but I can tell you now, I'll be much more aware of the added danger if I have to.
gwiley
Addicted to ArboristSite
It is easy to forget the magnitude of the forces being exerted in a falling tree. When you consider the sheer weight of the tree (often thousands of pounds) and then the acceleration you get scary numbers. Add to this unpredictable stresses in the wood fiber, pressure exerted by the wind and imbalances in the tree itself we need to remember that anything can happen.
As soon as I see the trunk start to move I begin my exit, if it is going very slowly, I just sit and wait. Trees can jump in wild ways and then consider the effect of a barber chair that might happen just after the face cut. That piece of trunk can act like a fly swatter and reach unbelievably far back.
There is a reason that OSHA reports that the majority of logging fatalities happen to fallers within 6' of the stump - it (tree falling) is simply a very dangerous thing to do.
As soon as I see the trunk start to move I begin my exit, if it is going very slowly, I just sit and wait. Trees can jump in wild ways and then consider the effect of a barber chair that might happen just after the face cut. That piece of trunk can act like a fly swatter and reach unbelievably far back.
There is a reason that OSHA reports that the majority of logging fatalities happen to fallers within 6' of the stump - it (tree falling) is simply a very dangerous thing to do.
When the backcut starts opening up, I am GONE! I'll watch the stem from 20 or 30 feet away. I'll wait a minute or two if I have to go back and thin the hinge a bit, just enough time to see why she didn't go over and what the problem might be.
Bermie
Addicted to ArboristSite
Unfortunately a lot of newspaper reports are thin on detail and to a certain extent it leads to the thought that somehow the tree was at fault, and people continue to take on tree related tasks that are, quite frankly, beyond their understanding and skill levels.
EVERY tree has the potential to kill, we as professionals or very experienced amateurs have the experience to read the tree, the situation, think forward, anticipate problems and plan the work accordingly, AND know when to call someone else and/or seek help or advice.
But anyone can buy a chainsaw at the hardware store...
Its always a tragedy when someone dies trying to do something themselves...I send my condolences.
EVERY tree has the potential to kill, we as professionals or very experienced amateurs have the experience to read the tree, the situation, think forward, anticipate problems and plan the work accordingly, AND know when to call someone else and/or seek help or advice.
But anyone can buy a chainsaw at the hardware store...
Its always a tragedy when someone dies trying to do something themselves...I send my condolences.
what do you mean by that exactly?RIP
To help answer the question: Maybe he was just driving in and something fell on him. Maybe he was killed when piece broke out of the top on the tree he was working on. Maybe he slipped and fell in the DZ. Maybe the tree was hung up in another and when he cut it fell back on him. Maybe he cut it and it didn't go in the direction he thought it would go.
Now if you want to hear something that sounds bad:
I am sort of relieved it seems that most deaths like this are not happening to us professionalls but rather the non-professionalls. It seems that even when its a real tree guy the guy was up to no good or untrained mexican. that makes me feel better somehow.
pinemartin
tightwad
It means he is a uncaring piece of human excrement that thinks the lives of non professionals and mexicans are of no value and he enjoys seeing them die. Anyway that is how I took it, maybe he should clarify what was meant.
RIP
Now if you want to hear something that sounds bad:
I am sort of relieved it seems that most deaths like this are not happening to us professionalls but rather the non-professionalls. It seems that even when its a real tree guy the guy was up to no good or untrained mexican. that makes me feel better somehow.
Back in 1993, the auto racing world lost one of the best, if not THE best, driver: Ayrton Senna. He was, a the time, a three time World Driving Champion and probably would have amassed a few more WDCs if he hadn't perished.
The general sentiment I read about and heard about at the races after Senna's death was similar to what Dan mentioned above: it's easier to understand, easier for our brains to process, when a less experienced operator (whether it's an F1 car or a chainsaw) dies versus when a skilled operator succumbs to the dangers of the profession.
I won't back up the "mexican" aspect to it other than noting that immigrants, illegal or otherwise, have been taken advantage of for centuries, whether it's in the coal mines, steel mills, or timber industry. Their deaths are no less tragic.
wgrassel
ArboristSite Member
Being from Pittsburgh I know a bit about the Steelers. Retired Steelers guard Steve Courson died when a tree he was cutting fell on him. I found these details online:
Courson had been cutting down a 44-foot tree on his property, but a gust of wind changed the direction of its fall, and he moved into its path while attempting to prevent his dog from being struck.
Courson had been cutting down a 44-foot tree on his property, but a gust of wind changed the direction of its fall, and he moved into its path while attempting to prevent his dog from being struck.
KodiakKen
ArboristSite Operative
dam dogs
for us single folks...they are at least as important or more than wives..
for us single folks...they are at least as important or more than wives..
treemandan
Tree Freak
I mean this:
That our knowledge as professionals works, that it is not dumb luck keeping us alive. No, I don't really like to hear about people getting it like this but I have some sort of consolation thinking that since I know about all the things that can kill you and heed them I stand a better chance of making it.
Now if the injury and death forum was filled with stories about professionals dying right and left I would feel rather uneasy.
It seems the people who are getting killed the most are those who either did not know the rules or didn't not heed them. I know and heed so I feel better knowing I got a pretty good shot at not making my wife cash in my life ins policy just yet. I don't feel quite the sheep to slaughter.
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treemandan
Tree Freak
If I wanted you to explain what I meant I would have said " Pinemartin, explain what I meant", but I didn't so don't. Thanks.
dingeryote
Blueberry Baron
The story is skimpy on details because he likely was cutting alone, or his partner didn't see what happened.
Dosn't matter if we had the details anyway, cuz we all know that wierd things happen and expect them to happen, and it is never enough.
The gentleman had been cutting for years and was well seasoned in the woods. He misjudged something, or got sloppy.
We all do that too, and when that happens luck sometimes runs out.
We have had some good wind storms lately, and some of the snags are hung up or leaning, some are stressed.
I had one POP the other day on the face cut, and then proceed to partially blow out about 10' up.
Stuff happens.
Stay safe!
Dingeryote
Dosn't matter if we had the details anyway, cuz we all know that wierd things happen and expect them to happen, and it is never enough.
The gentleman had been cutting for years and was well seasoned in the woods. He misjudged something, or got sloppy.
We all do that too, and when that happens luck sometimes runs out.
We have had some good wind storms lately, and some of the snags are hung up or leaning, some are stressed.
I had one POP the other day on the face cut, and then proceed to partially blow out about 10' up.
Stuff happens.
Stay safe!
Dingeryote
pinemartin
tightwad
Glad you cleared that up Ben. Thanks
stihlhead
ArboristSite Operative
If you don't want someone speaking for you, maybe you need to speak a little clearer for yourself. Sounded rather odd to me as well when you start bringing non-professionals and Mexicans into a thread on someone dying from a tree related death. Point of the thread in the first place was to show how easy it can happen.......to anyone!
techdave
ArboristSite Operative
Treemandan, FYI on "Mexicans"
I would like to please remind you that " Mexican " is a nationality and/or "racial" group, and as such includes doctors, lawyers, and other high falutin types. If you only see uneducated laborers where you live so be it, but using Mexican as a synonym for lower caste is ignorant and ill-advised.
Having said that, I figured you meant no offense or racial slur in your original post, but were just carelessly lumping all Mexicans in as unskilled labor.
FYI, alot of the forest ROW work done in the Cuyamaca mountains of SD county after our wildfires of the last 10 years has been done by Mexican-Americans and Salvadorenos. ( Despite the bad feeling a lot of people express in here about AZZ-plunder the utility tree boys, the guys who work for them seemed allright to me, white/mex/whatever.)
I have had the pleasure of working with these crews several times and they were alll skilled, cautious, and open to sharing ideas and learning from us tips on bucking large diameter trees in a forested and steep area. We learned from them rigging, lowering, and bucket skills that a trail crew would not ever be exposed to.
I would like to please remind you that " Mexican " is a nationality and/or "racial" group, and as such includes doctors, lawyers, and other high falutin types. If you only see uneducated laborers where you live so be it, but using Mexican as a synonym for lower caste is ignorant and ill-advised.
Having said that, I figured you meant no offense or racial slur in your original post, but were just carelessly lumping all Mexicans in as unskilled labor.
FYI, alot of the forest ROW work done in the Cuyamaca mountains of SD county after our wildfires of the last 10 years has been done by Mexican-Americans and Salvadorenos. ( Despite the bad feeling a lot of people express in here about AZZ-plunder the utility tree boys, the guys who work for them seemed allright to me, white/mex/whatever.)
I have had the pleasure of working with these crews several times and they were alll skilled, cautious, and open to sharing ideas and learning from us tips on bucking large diameter trees in a forested and steep area. We learned from them rigging, lowering, and bucket skills that a trail crew would not ever be exposed to.
