No Heat For 13 Hours

Treestuff
Wesspur
Shop deals on ebay
Arborist Forum

Help Support Arborist Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Guess I must be paranoid. Have OWB, woodstove, wood insert and 6500 diesel gererator hard wired into house.
 
easy way is to size it off you service.
If you have 100 amp service, shoot for about 22kW. I would go dual or tri fuel if you have natual gas available.
This will give you enough power that you wont be able to tell the difference.
If you look on the side of your electric motors (blowers, compressor motors, pump motors, etc), they will have a code on it that tells you how much power the motor requires to start (http://www.reliance.com/prodserv/motgen/b9652new/b9652.htm#i) scroll down to inrush current. 3 to 5 times the max running current is a good rule of thumb.

Personally, When my main power goes out, I dont plan on laundry or roasting a turkey, I would size for your heating system (water pump for owb and blower). this will also give you enough overhead to run a few lights.
 
Go down to SAM's Club and buy the 13 hp Honda believe it's a 10K, been with out electricity back in the late 80's for 14 days straight and two years ago for 15 days straight due to ice. I have a 400 amp service and run two electric water heaters and two fridges, two freezers and a ton of other crap and run a 14k. I would buy a portable generator so I could use it for other things, but I live on a farm and have a use for that type of generator. Buy bigger than you think you need.
 
There are a lot of ways to slice this problem as other have noted. The first question you need to ask yourself is what you want the generator to do? Running the whole house? There are a couple levels of that... Do you want to never notice the mains are down and be able to arc weld on your AC while it is running? :) Big honkin generator...like 30-40kw+

The other end (of a "complete" system) is "just getting by" which means you want to run the furnace/boiler/heat source, the fridges and freezers and some lights. This shouldn't take too much as long as you are not using electric heat. The best way to figure this out is to read off the power draws from the equipment you want to maintain. You will need to pull them out into a separate transfer switch box, but it really isn't' hard. This is a very good time to do some circuit re-jiggering to consolidate the important things into the transfer switch circuits. It's nice to have lights in each area of the house, for example. Garage door opener? Good to have that working too. You can often run the entire lights in a house off of 1-2 circuits as lights don't draw too much - but you need to figure it out before you assume. The only way to figure out what is the minimum is to size all the loads and then add 20% or so for motor startup loads and normal variability.

Yes you can get even more basic by rolling out a portable gen and running extension cords for the important appliances and Frances, but it sounds like you wanted it a bit more integrated than that. Not everything has a plug on it either. Like most furnaces.

Generators are more complicated than most residential wiring, but they aren't the worst either. Figure out what you want to do and ask for guidance. There are enough people that understand this here to help, if you feel like doing it. No harm in hiring an electrician if you don't feel up to it either. It still helps to understand this a bit better so you get what you need and know what you are getting.

-Dave
 
Major problem with small generator

Alot of people overlook one thing.With the major snowstorm knocking out the power how do you think you are going to get gas from the gas station to run your generator.We had an ice storm last winter that knocked out power for 5 days in my area.Luckily I fill 4-6 gallon cans every Thanksgiving weekend just in case of a power outage.I also run my generator twice a year regardless---generally at daylight savings time.I use Stabil in the gas and I also have a nice cover on it so it looks like new even though I bought for Y2K.The advantage with the big pad propane ones is usually the tank is full and ready to go.
 
From experience, I think you might want to look into the Generac 15,000 to 20,000. They are still not enough to run every little thing in your house at once, but they will handle the essentials, including ac and heat. If you do not know much about service entrances and other electrical workings, then you want to hire someone insured and with good rep to install. Just check to make sure that the wire they put in is the right size, if you have 4-0 aluminum coming into your house for your service, you need the same going through your transfer switch.
 
One option you may consider is some of the battery backup systems that are being used by people who are trying to live off the grid. Instead of charging them with solar and wind power, you'll charge them with the grid or generator. This will let you run a smaller generator at a higher duty cycle and still have the power to start motors.
fuel is an issue with any generator that is why I recommend dual or tri fuel. atleast with a diesel generator, you can get a 100 gallon tank to haul to get fuel instead of filling a 5 gallon jerry can every day.
 
We just had a 6 day power outage due to an ice storm. I have a 10Kw Hobart generator/welder with an Onan/Subaru/Cummins gas motor. I hooked it up to my main breaker at the pole. Luckily, last summer that pole broke and the power company replaced it and put in a double throw switch. No charge since it is on "their side". Being hooked up to my entrance, it powered everything on the farm, including the security light in the yard. BTW, I used 6ga. copper, 2 hot 1 ground to hook up. Opened the 200 amp breaker and closed the 100 amp breaker to power the farm and not the incoming line.

Now the details. We have rural water here so no water pumps to run. Wood burning furnace so only a blower to run. However, the LP backup did kick on once with no problem. LP Gas water heater. I did not run the generator constant. When we were gone during the day, I shut it off. When re-starting, I would open all the breakers in the house, start the generator, and close the breakers one at a time at 1 minute intervals so that all 3 refrigerators,1 freezer, etc. wouldn't all start at the same time and overload the generator. We could run anything we wanted with the exception of the clothes dryer and the welder in the shop. It used .63 gal/hr of gas. 10 gal. tank lasted almost 16 hours. At 2.41 gas it cost me about a 1.50 an hour to have power. Kinda pricey but worth it to not have frozen plumbing and spoiled food.

I wouldn't try running AC with it but everything else worked fine, using a little common sense.

As someone mentioned, have fuel on hand if the roads are blocked. I have a 300 gal. gravity flow fuel barrel on the farm for ATV's, lawn mowers, etc. and the fuel company had filled it a week earlier so I was good to go.

We use this generator everyday in the spring planting season and fall harvest season to run an air compressor and the welder in the service truck, but this is the first time I have had to use it to it's full capacity. The 2 cyl. gas motor is a bit noisey but at 60 feet from the house, it was kind of a pleasant hum knowing I had electricity.
 
WVwoodsman said:
Due to the severe snow storm yesterday, I had no heat at my house for a little over 13 hours. I heat with an OWB and I'm not going to be without heat again. I'm going to buy a whole house natural gas generator. I have looked at a few cataloges and see an 8kw generator for around $2000.00. Would this be enough to power my whole house? My requirements consist of two heating/cooling zones (central air). One furnace up stairs and one down stairs in addition to 2 air conditioners plus all the household appliances outlets etc. Does anyone have any experience or suggestions?
Click to expand...

13 hours? that's it?

great storm of 98, 11 days.
and no, don't be expecting to live like your off grid unless you blow $40,000 in equipment.
everyone goes way off scale. just the essentials. we got buy powering our house and relatives nextdoor with extention cords. each house got 2500watts. if you wanted something else on, you had to turn something else off...just common sense stuff. It wasn't pleasant, an inconvience it was, but we didn't loose any food, didn't get cold, had a couple light bulbs, took hot showers, and drank beer, and still watched movies on the $30 dvd player and 13" bubble tube TV...

oh also, i'd highly recommend against using any high dollar stuff when running a generator, unless it's got some serious modified sine wave equipment in it. turning dc to ac requires alot of fancy filtering and work to make it clean and have the stepping smooth. i refuse to use computers, bigscreen LCD's, etc etc unless it's coming from the power company. they have very expesive and dependable filters on their equipment and power stations, unless like i said, you want to spend some good money. the $299 special at HF and $30 extension cords has far suppressed it's expense of purchasing in saving our asses...

then again i don't have the thousands of $$$ to spend on equipment for a handful days of the year we're without power....that is IF power is lost. some times we've gone 6 years in a row with only a few hours of downtime....
 
Last edited:
milkie62 said:
Alot of people overlook one thing.With the major snowstorm knocking out the power how do you think you are going to get gas from the gas station to run your generator.We had an ice storm last winter that knocked out power for 5 days in my area.Luckily I fill 4-6 gallon cans every Thanksgiving weekend just in case of a power outage.I also run my generator twice a year regardless---generally at daylight savings time.I use Stabil in the gas and I also have a nice cover on it so it looks like new even though I bought for Y2K.The advantage with the big pad propane ones is usually the tank is full and ready to go.
Click to expand...

You should cycle your generator every 1-2 weeks - the time to find out that it has a problem is BEFORE you need it. Most automatic systems perform self maintenance weekly.

Keep spare fuel, oil and air filters, spare spark plugs and be prepared to jump start it if it has an electric starter. I even have a spare starter motor on the shelf.

I keep 15 gallons in the generator tank and an additional 30 gallons of gas in a fuel dump away from the house. I have had mice chew through the plastic fuel cans - it sucks to dump 10-20 gallons of gasoline on the yard and is mighty dangerous to boot, especially if you have a smoker nearby. I recommend using metal cans if you are storing fuel.

Make sure and cycle through the gas - even with stabil type additives you don't want gasoline sitting around for months unused.
 
We lost power for 21 hrs. Friday/Saturday...the 'lil freebie/landfill special 1850 Coleman Powermate with the worn piston rings ran for about 8 hr. before locking up...I'm going to get an 8K or so gen., won't need to run the electric HWH, it's well insulated, and the later model water heaters can hold temperature for several days if you don't draw any out. just the lights, OWB, pumps, furnace fans...Biggest load would be the well pump. You can run a 1/2 - 3/4 hp pump, one that's in a well up to about 200' deep, on a 7-8K gen. The start current isn't that much on them anymore, thanks to the start capacitor being mounted in the motor instead of an external control box...run current around 5-8 amps. Anything larger, then you have to go 12-15 kw.
 
MotorSeven said:
WV, do you have a tractor? If so, look into a PTO generator. I have a 24KW(I know overkill, but it was cheap) & can hook it up in a matter of min on the 3pt hitch. I just didn't want another engine to maintain & my diesel tractor burns a little over a gallon an hr at 2K rpm.

RD
Click to expand...

:agree2:
 
Last December I was out for 4 days. I put my OWB circuit on my transfer switch when it was installed. My 8500W Honda does my well, 2 refridgerators, 1st floor lights/outlets, OWB, Furnace, 1st floor air handler. My furnace runs on oil. I also have a 500 Gal LP tank buried in the backyard. The LP is hooked to 2 Gas fireplaces (pilot lights, no electricity needed), cooktop, outdoor grill, pool heater, garage heater. When the juice was out it was nice to have a pot of coffee while watching Sportscenter (DirecTV). Even my neighbors with generators that had cable, still had no television. I shut down my Gen around 1030PM each night and fired back up around 6AM. Just kept the OWB low at night so no boil-over with pumps off. Two LP fireplaces heated whole house at night. It's nice to have options. Those who were not prepared were forced to move out to hotels in the Boston area and return home to burst pipes.
If you do use a gen, power management is key. Don't expect to run everything at once. Compact Flourecent bulbs save a lot of wattage. Unplug everything you can (chargers, clocks,TVs) while running only the things you need. When I was having everyone shower, I unplugged the Fridge to give plenty of power for the well. Common sense will allow you to live pretty well with a 6-8K generator.
 
Last edited:
Shoot

Wish I'd seen this thread before I bought our generator!

Picked up a NorthStar brand (Honda GC engine) that can generate 2400 watts. Looked at the next one up (for twice the money) but couldn't justify the expense right now. We were worried about losing power with the impending storm here last week, so made a quick decision (aargh).

Our concept is to run the OWB so it wouldn't freeze and maybe the fridge. I'm fine with using extension cords for the two pumps and draft fan on the OWB.

Here's the question- how can I hook it up to run the internal HVAC fans in the house? I think I need to install a transfer switch? I'm not sure if this unit will work (generator has four 20 Amp 120V receptacles).

Again, I don't want to power the whole house (we've got propane heat as a backup and a wood cookstove).

Thanks!
 
Scrapiron said:
Wish I'd seen this thread before I bought our generator!

Picked up a NorthStar brand (Honda GC engine) that can generate 2400 watts. Looked at the next one up (for twice the money) but couldn't justify the expense right now. We were worried about losing power with the impending storm here last week, so made a quick decision (aargh).

Our concept is to run the OWB so it wouldn't freeze and maybe the fridge. I'm fine with using extension cords for the two pumps and draft fan on the OWB.

Here's the question- how can I hook it up to run the internal HVAC fans in the house? I think I need to install a transfer switch? I'm not sure if this unit will work (generator has four 20 Amp 120V receptacles).

Again, I don't want to power the whole house (we've got propane heat as a backup and a wood cookstove).

Thanks!
Click to expand...


Well, with 2.4 kw you can't do much...the best you could hope for would be to connect cords/recps. into the furnace ckts. with disconnects that disable the neutral as well as the hot, but you MUST NOT DO ANYTHING that would cause a backfeed of power to the power line coming into your house.
 
Scrapiron said:
Wish I'd seen this thread before I bought our generator!

Picked up a NorthStar brand (Honda GC engine) that can generate 2400 watts. Looked at the next one up (for twice the money) but couldn't justify the expense right now. We were worried about losing power with the impending storm here last week, so made a quick decision (aargh).

Our concept is to run the OWB so it wouldn't freeze and maybe the fridge. I'm fine with using extension cords for the two pumps and draft fan on the OWB.

Here's the question- how can I hook it up to run the internal HVAC fans in the house? I think I need to install a transfer switch? I'm not sure if this unit will work (generator has four 20 Amp 120V receptacles).

Again, I don't want to power the whole house (we've got propane heat as a backup and a wood cookstove).

Thanks!
Click to expand...

I have a small 100A panel for the generator with a manual mains lockout (very cheap alternative to a transfer switch), but our house has 400A service. This means that only a few select circuits are on the generator panel. When I want to add other circuits I shut off the main breakers to ensure that I isolate the house from the power feed, then I use 30A extension cords (RV style) to plug into the generator supply and into the 15A wall sockets. The 15K generator feeds the 100A generator panel through a 50A cord so I can comfortably tap into the additional generator supply using a few heavy guage cords.

If you do this it is absolutely imperative that you isolate your house from the power feed by throwing the main breakers, if you do not then you risk injuring line workers (due to back feed) and also risk destroying your generator if the power comes up while you are connected.

I also learned why we use receptacles....touched the live end of one of my double headed cords and got a good wakeup call :)

If you decide to make double headed cords, choose the ones with lit ends so that you can see that they are hot without testing them.
 
gwiley said:
I have a small 100A panel for the generator with a manual mains lockout (very cheap alternative to a transfer switch), but our house has 400A service. This means that only a few select circuits are on the generator panel. When I want to add other circuits I shut off the main breakers to ensure that I isolate the house from the power feed, then I use 30A extension cords (RV style) to plug into the generator supply and into the 15A wall sockets. The 15K generator feeds the 100A generator panel through a 50A cord so I can comfortably tap into the additional generator supply using a few heavy guage cords.

If you do this it is absolutely imperative that you isolate your house from the power feed by throwing the main breakers, if you do not then you risk injuring line workers (due to back feed) and also risk destroying your generator if the power comes up while you are connected.

I also learned why we use receptacles....touched the live end of one of my double headed cords and got a good wakeup call :)

If you decide to make double headed cords, choose the ones with lit ends so that you can see that they are hot without testing them.
Click to expand...

If you have a way to mount them, recessed male plugs work well....Hubbell, P&S make them.
 

Similar threads

jhellwig
Garage heating options
2 3 4
Replies
61
Views
4K
GenXer
GenXer
53ksm
Not getting much heat
2 3
Replies
42
Views
4K
pdqdl
pdqdl
O
Basement Too Hot with Outdoor Woodburner
2
Replies
32
Views
3K
husqvarna257
husqvarna257
K
Need help with central boiler system
Replies
5
Views
1K
2412
2
BubblySatisfaction
Wood Furnace Newbie Questions
Replies
3
Views
2K
fields_mj
F

Latest posts

Back
Top