Shaver Improvement Forum

[scag52]

I run the programmable thermo. and find it works great. I like it cool at night and the stove has no problem catching up . ranco set @ 148 with a 2* diff. This morning i got up and the house was 67*. I had forgot to change for daylight savings. So i bumped it up to 73 and it only took a few minutes and house was up to temp. I think it would use less wood not running as much at night. I also think the lower diff. is working so the boiler can react as soon as it drops a couple degrees. I have a customer that is running his at 1* diff. Do you guys think that if it cycles more there might be less smoke due to less creosote ?

 

[smus]

That's what I mean

Scag, those are the questions that we need answered. I am currently running a 10* variance thinking that the first part of the burn cycle is the least efficient and the longer cycles gives better burns. I don't know if that's correct but, its my theory. I know there has to be a way to determine which way is actually the best using numbers and data. I just don't know what it is. Help from the manufacture's would be great.
Like I said the Government spent a great deal of time and money on studies showing how terrible wood boilers are to use ( seemed very biased to me), It would be nice if these questions were answered so that those of us who are using them pollute the least possible while doing it.

 

[ngzcaz]

Well, thats an interesting theory. I haven't come across any literature either way. While we're on better burn/less wood, has anyone necked the stock chimney down to say 4 inches or so to keep the heat in the boiler longer ? Would have to be easily removeable for cleaning etc.

 

[smus]

Funny you mentioned that. I was just thinking how much more output we got from our old free standing stove when we closed the damper a bit to hold the heat. Seems logical to me.
Someone else mentioned the recycle of gases. That also sounds good.I would like to able to pull the gas from the top of the firebox and redirect it to the hot part of the flame area. A suction tube @ the top with the blower connected to it pulling outside air creating a venturi effect. Kinda like a turbo but, different.
It just seems to me there is a huge potential for improvement with these burners. Just think of all the improvements already made using simple logic and practical experience.

 

[ngzcaz]

The lowered chimney inside the boiler is " supposed " to create a circular air flow to re-burn the gasses. While it may help, the blue flames I see coming out of my chimney on occasion seem to indicate otherwise. The old time damper would probably work as well. Necking it down also interests me. Think I'll do a bit of reading and see what the physics are in this application. There has to be a max chimney diameter that would allow for the best combination of heat retention and efficiency. At worst, neither way works. But on the other hand......... Sure would be nice if someone already tried one or both of these. Please chime in if its being tried.

:monkey:

 

[Windwalker7]

I had plans of doing something like this but never tried it.

Was going to try to make this piece out of something to see if it would keep heat from going out the flue so easy.


There have been times when I open the firebox door and see flames going up the flue. I thought this would prevent that. If I had a way to bend some 1/4 steel plate it would be neat to experiment with.

Perhaps one of you guys would have the tools and ability to fab something like this and see how it works.

Please excuse the crudeness of my drawing LOL! :hmm3grin2orange:

 

[Yomax4]

If you look inside a Central Boiler unit, It has those ripple baffles on the top. That is design to keep the heat and smoke in the combustion area longer to help create a "Secondary Burn". In therory it burns the gas and the smoke. Funny how the Centrals smoke just as much as the Shavers but it also gives them more surface area to heat the water. I have to believe that they have spent the most time and money on research. I have watched them and several other brands being built and the Centrals are different inside than all the rest. They are 2X more expensive as well. I knew a guy who built OWB's similar to the Shaver and he had a Cap type damper on the top of the pipe similar to what you see on Semi's and Tractors. It had a rod that came down and locked the damper where ever you wanted it. I remember it was a little tricky to set to keep the stove from boiling. I think mine carries enough creosote that it equalls a damper or 4" pipe most of the time. ..I really like the adjustable variance. Mine is at 5 degrees and I think I will set it at 2. I doubt that there is much you can do about smoke. Fires smoke when they are cold. It seems it's the Nature of the beast. Speaking of Beast, I like this guy --> :chainsawguy:

 

[scag52]

I try to put a fat log in front of the stack to block it off some, then load wood in front of stove.

 

[jmruggiero]

blower modifacation

to the ones that use a modified flaper door on the (shaver 165) blower, are you running your blower full blast or are you restricting your air flow some. i did change the theromosat ( that helped a lot) set at 155 off at 160. with the blower running wide open the recover time is about 12-14 minutes and then the flap shuts the air off. been cold out now and am getting 12hr burns on a fill up. heating the house, garage, hot tub and hot water. jim

 

[scag52]

I had to put some silicone on the flapper to make a seal . Some people turn the blower a little to make sure it closes completely. I have it set to open about 3/4 open. Your pumps run 24/7 or on demand ? Reason i asked is last year i was only getting 12 burns also. House was on demand, shop 24/7. Just switched the shop pump to on demand and now i'm getting 24 burns and then some. Cold here too. I also got the stove inside out of the wind . I knew the wind was a problem .

 

[Windwalker7]

I run the blower full blast. The flapper doesn't quite open fully when the blower is on because I have some weight (a screw) to help keep it shut when the blower is off.

But yeah, that little swing gate on the Dayton blower is opened all the way up.

 

[scag52]

I had plans of doing something like this but never tried it.

Was going to try to make this piece out of something to see if it would keep heat from going out the flue so easy.


There have been times when I open the firebox door and see flames going up the flue. I thought this would prevent that. If I had a way to bend some 1/4 steel plate it would be neat to experiment with.

Perhaps one of you guys would have the tools and ability to fab something like this and see how it works.

Please excuse the crudeness of my drawing LOL! :hmm3grin2orange:

Pic looks fine. better than I can do . LOL
i think i will try to make something like that in the near future. Gotta wait till deer season is over though.

 

[Windwalker7]

When you get around to making it, please post back and let us know if it improves anything.

My daughters deer from Monday

 

[Holdstihl]

Sounds like we're trying to reinvent the wheel somewhat. The simple design on bringing the stack down into the burn chamber, allowing the gasses to burn above it is one of the reasons I went with a Shaver. Well, that and the price. I know I've been critical of these things but overall, I'm satisfied. When I open the door during a burn and see the top half of the chamber full of blue flame, I know things are working properly. A square firebox, even without ripples, obviously has more surface area. It also isn't as strong and has more welds to fail. If you're getting flames out the stack, close the inlet door on the fan a little. I would bet that there were flames exiting a free standing stove with the flue damper closed, you just couldn't see them. Choking down a stack would be the same as having one half plugged with creasote, well documented in this forum that performance suffers. In my opinion an auto damper is necessary for decent effeciency out of a Shaver. With the fan shut off and the door closed. I can hold my bare hand over the stack. It can't be over 100 deg. The stack itself is a little warmer, I can only keep my hand on it for a second or two. Point is, very little heat loss there. I'm not saying these are the best boilers available. They are what they are - simple, functional, affordable ......WOW, I think I just came up with a slogan

 

[scag52]

I cant help but think about the the damper in the stove pipe that was bought up. It worked good for my indoor stove.. I'd bank that stove all the way down before bed . Thats why i shove that log in front of the stack on the shaver. Just trying to slow it down some at night. Cant hurt to try. I got lots of scrap and a mig welder.All i can do i gorrilla weld though. LOL

Thats a nice buck ! Man I'm jealous ! Way to go.

 

[Yomax4]

I think the Shaver with the all of the mods is as good as it will get. I have never seen flame coming out of the stack but I have always had some form of extension on it.
Congrats to your daughter on the nice Buck. I am still bow hunting to fill the freezer for winter. Oh, Is that a dead Elm in the background? Looks like a good mushroom / Boiler tree.

 

[scag52]

Theres always room for improvement.

 

[headleyj]

when I first got my Shaver and fired it up, I had 2' flames shooting out of the stock height stack. I quickly choked down the fan inlet and put the double wall black pipe on that many here have described....and a rain/ wind cap.

I really think a damper that actutes open/ closed with the fan would help a ton. Just didn't have time this year.

WRT pump on 24/7 vs on-demand, I recently changed mine from 24/7 to on-demand - a very good decrease in wood consumption. I can't get 24 hrs out of it at these temps (single digits at night and 20 day) but it's certainly better than it was!

I have a feeling I will be tinkering with this thing the rest of my life.

One thing I've thought of that would require moderate surgery is a pressure relief valve affixed to the top of the tank and plumbed over by the overflow.... incase you have the overflow mod and are worried about pressurizing, like I am. I jsut worry about blowing those silicone seals out and steaming into the insulation. My entire roof is full of insulation.

 

[ngzcaz]

Just a thought before anyone starts welding. There has to be a way to remove the creosote when the chimney is cleaned as well as ash accumulation. Something that doesn't go all the way to the bottom perhaps.

:monkey:

 

[scag52]

I would just make it simple and just set in in place , No welding to the stack. Just heavy mild steel so it would sit there to try it out. I like the damper/hooked up to the fan idea too.