Advice needed for buying new Wood Furnace/Boiler

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radicalRWer

ArboristSite Lurker
Joined
Mar 8, 2011
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Location
Kalkaska, MI
Hello,

I would like some advise on choosing a OWB unit. I live in NW LP of MI and I have a 1900sf ranch house heated with a Weil McLain high eff boiler new in 2006. Half is under floor heat and half is base board heat. I also have a 24x24 insulated portion of my pole barn i'd like to heat (50F) with a fan unit. Additionally my front concrete porch has a in-slab heat loop in it too which would be nice to use in the winter (too much $$ now). I would also tie-in to the HW heater.

Questions:
1. I like the gasification aspect - but I am worried about some posts of having to baby sit them (filling 3-4 times/day). I have a very active family and we are not home for 12-14hrs typically during winter.
2. Should I consider up-sizing to a unit that will handle 4-5000sf
3. Will up-sizing result in wasting more wood to keep the unit heating "efficiently"
4. What sort of consumption should I expect using oak/maple/beech hardwood?
5. When talking cords on this site- is that 4'x4'x8' (pulp cord) or 16"x4'x8' (face cord)?
6. Advantages/disadvantages to open and closed systems? Help me understand.
7. Water capacity? Some boast 250-350 gallons while some boast of 75 gallons. I understand more water takes more fuel to raise the temperature, so it seems smaller is better but I am confused.
8. U/G piping: Foam or triple wrapped - whats the real skinny? I am thinking I'll have 75-100'.

I have several dealers within 30min of my house. Central, Empyre, Portage & Main, Hawken, AquaTherm/Econoburn/Eco-One.

Thanks for the advise and feedback. This is a great site.
 
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there's a central boiler in the classifieds that's kinda close to you, that's only 2 years old, check it out..
i don't have a central boiler but everyone that does seems happy with them...
mine is a mahoning and i'm very happy with mine also..
 
I have a Tarm gasification boiler with a 820 gallon storage tank (water). I only do one burn / day when the temp is > 30 degrees during the night (40 + during the day), and 2 burns / day, one in the morning and one at night when the temp drops below 30 at night. If you have space in the barn for a large water tank, I would suggest a 1200 gallon tank. This would probably allow you to span more than 12 hours / burn, even during cold days. The more water the better. It acts as a heat storage mechanism. You run a hot, long burn, and let the water heat your house when the fire burns out.

Gassification boilers only work with dry seasoned wood. Do not try to burn wet or unseasoned wood, or you will be very disappointed. However, they use much less wood than a non-gassification boiler, and burn much cleaner (less air pollution).

Make sure that you use 1.25 inch pipes for all your main piping. It will save you from buying pumps with high head capacity, and work much better.

A cord is 4x4x8 feet. You should use about 5-8 cords / year if your house is well insulated. I keep mine at 72 degrees for most of the fall/winter/spring. I don't like to be cold. When I get new windows, I expect my usage to drop even further.
 
I've heard of this method of heating but having another large storage tank on the property or in my pole barn just isn't appealing. Intuitively it doesn't seem like it is more efficient (akin to hot water heaters) method of heating but I'm sure they don't make them because they are less efficient.

My dad has a HeatMor that he likes but he burns a lot of wood and he also heats a lot of space. I'm not convinced SS is better for the burn chamber.

I like the fact that the conventional boilers are cheaper initial cost but if they burn 30-50% more wood, that adds up to more time and money spent to run it...and I don't have a lot of time.

Regarding the 1.25 pex - does the size of unit play into this as a bigger factor or the length of run? I have got to believe it is length of run. Is this primarily just to run smaller pumps? If so, does it make sense as upgraded pumps would be less expensive than paying for the larger Pex especially in the length I would have?

Thanks Again

C-
 
I'm using a Central Boiler CB5036, on it's 3rd winter, heat a 1200 s.f. house, 800 s.f. shop with no problems. Storage tank is a must w/ a gasifier to utilize it to it's maximum. Look at a Central E-classic. above all, look at your present/future needs. If upsizing the boiler now to take care of future expansion makes sense, do it, but if not, it is a waste. Upsizing your heat exchangers makes more sense, will compensate for the supply water temps. which will fluctuate. Above all, do a detailed heat loss calc. on the house and barn, which will give you the appropiate sizes for the boiler, piping, pumps, etc. Don't let a dealer tell you what size boiler you need based on sq. footage alone, that is nonsense. Heat loss calcs. are not rocket science, but you will be spending mucho $$ on your install, do it onece, do it right. Lots of neat options out there right now equipment, and pump-wise, like variable speed pumps, zoning controls, etc. There are resources out there where you can do it yourself, or have an HVAC contractor/supplier do it for you. Also go to Heating Help, get all of the hydronic heating books available so you can undersatnd how things work. See disclaimer below...
 
HERN IRON WORKS
been burning the 111 for 20 yrs & its a learning curve / cant beat cost of the fuel= presently burning sawdust from litterbox:heart:. Its a burner only & not UL tested. It can be hooked up to a boiler or any heat exchanger. Sawdust requires 2x storage of wood but conifer burns cleanly @ very low feedrate
 
HERN IRON WORKS
been burning the 111 for 20 yrs & its a learning curve / cant beat cost of the fuel= presently burning sawdust from litterbox:heart:. Its a burner only & not UL tested. It can be hooked up to a boiler or any heat exchanger. Sawdust requires 2x storage of wood but conifer burns cleanly @ very low feedrate

In a different thread you said you were burning semi-wet wood....

Let me get this straight: You are burning urine soaked sawdust in your sawdust burner? :msp_lol: Did you remove the "solid waste"? :msp_lol:

Shari
 
Those hern sawdust burners claim to be able to burn 36-40% moisture "hogged-fuel". To me, that means you can dump a load of chips into the hopper from the tree service truck. They are still made in Idaho and appear to require no electric. My father had a sawdust burning furnace in his home in downtown Portland Oregon, so people actually used sawdust burners in real life. The company would pump saw dust into the basement through one of those low windows. He said ants would always climb out.
 
Those hern sawdust burners claim to be able to burn 36-40% moisture "hogged-fuel". To me, that means you can dump a load of chips into the hopper from the tree service truck. They are still made in Idaho and appear to require no electric. My father had a sawdust burning furnace in his home in downtown Portland Oregon, so people actually used sawdust burners in real life. The company would pump saw dust into the basement through one of those low windows. He said ants would always climb out.
how many ants in a horsebarn? ya, they burn well with high MC kinda= its a learning curve but the MH controls the overfiring & sawdust is cheap & easy when manageable
 
In a different thread you said you were burning semi-wet wood....

Let me get this straight: You are burning urine soaked sawdust in your sawdust burner? :msp_lol: Did you remove the "solid waste"? :msp_lol:

Shari

:deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse::msp_thumbsup::clap:
 
In a different thread you said you were burning semi-wet wood....

Let me get this straight: You are burning urine soaked sawdust in your sawdust burner? :msp_lol: Did you remove the "solid waste"? :msp_lol:

Shari
NO! turds included which burn,duh= thats why i put a :heart: in the post
 
Those hern sawdust burners claim to be able to burn 36-40% moisture "hogged-fuel". To me, that means you can dump a load of chips into the hopper from the tree service truck. They are still made in Idaho and appear to require no electric. My father had a sawdust burning furnace in his home in downtown Portland Oregon, so people actually used sawdust burners in real life. The company would pump saw dust into the basement through one of those low windows. He said ants would always climb out.

how many ants in a horsebarn? ya, they burn well with high MC kinda= its a learning curve but the MH controls the overfiring & sawdust is cheap & easy when manageable

NO! turds included which burn,duh= thats why i put a :heart: in the post

So, Pooky, ma' dear, scientifically speaking, how many BTU's in this solid waste? Do you compute these BTU's per pound or do you go by mass? Burning this by-product I would expect you have had your emissions tested - how'd they come out? Do you pass EPA emission requirements with this type of 'load'? Where's your data?

Everyone would do themselves a favor by reading this thread regarding MH heat reclaimers: http://www.arboristsite.com/firewood-heating-wood-burning-equipment/154244.htm

Also - to quote the owner of arborist.com:

"TO ALL: After reading much of the information provided by Pook above, it seems to be misinformed and even dangerous in some cases. Please disregard any posts made by him before this post. I have informed him and will inform you all, if you are giving out bad information knowingly you will be banned from this site and if somebody gets hurt by your poor information, you could be personally liable. This could include jail time or be at the very least financially liable. You are personally liable for anything you say on here or any other website!!! Since there seems to be so many posts with poor/dangerous information, I feel it has to be on purpose as nobody can believe many of the things that have been said, which includes the poster.
Thanks!!! Have a Happy, warm Holiday to everyone!! Also, Thanks to all that try to help others on here and have a genuine interest in making this a site full of good/useful information.
__________________
Darin Johnson
www.arboristsite.com
Our business is growing"
 
So, Pooky, ma' dear, scientifically speaking, how many BTU's in this solid waste? Do you compute these BTU's per pound or do you go by mass? Burning this by-product I would expect you have had your emissions tested - how'd they come out? Do you pass EPA emission requirements with this type of 'load'? Where's your data?

Everyone would do themselves a favor by reading this thread regarding MH heat reclaimers: http://www.arboristsite.com/firewood-heating-wood-burning-equipment/154244.htm

Also - to quote the owner of arborist.com:

"TO ALL: After reading much of the information provided by Pook above, it seems to be misinformed and even dangerous in some cases. Please disregard any posts made by him before this post. I have informed him and will inform you all, if you are giving out bad information knowingly you will be banned from this site and if somebody gets hurt by your poor information, you could be personally liable. This could include jail time or be at the very least financially liable. You are personally liable for anything you say on here or any other website!!! Since there seems to be so many posts with poor/dangerous information, I feel it has to be on purpose as nobody can believe many of the things that have been said, which includes the poster.
Thanks!!! Have a Happy, warm Holiday to everyone!! Also, Thanks to all that try to help others on here and have a genuine interest in making this a site full of good/useful information.
__________________
Darin Johnson
www.arboristsite.com
Our business is growing"
now think= guy has horsebarrn+++ & i said i sawdust + urine + catturds burn very well when mixed with added sdust within the bin= its a disposal issue as might be with horses or BS from u..........
 
So, Pooky, ma' dear, scientifically speaking, how many BTU's in this solid waste? Do you compute these BTU's per pound or do you go by mass? Burning this by-product I would expect you have had your emissions tested - how'd they come out? Do you pass EPA emission requirements with this type of 'load'? Where's your data?

Everyone would do themselves a favor by reading this thread regarding MH heat reclaimers: http://www.arboristsite.com/firewood-heating-wood-burning-equipment/154244.htm

Also - to quote the owner of arborist.com:

"TO ALL: After reading much of the information provided by Pook above, it seems to be misinformed and even dangerous in some cases. Please disregard any posts made by him before this post. I have informed him and will inform you all, if you are giving out bad information knowingly you will be banned from this site and if somebody gets hurt by your poor information, you could be personally liable. This could include jail time or be at the very least financially liable. You are personally liable for anything you say on here or any other website!!! Since there seems to be so many posts with poor/dangerous information, I feel it has to be on purpose as nobody can believe many of the things that have been said, which includes the poster.
Thanks!!! Have a Happy, warm Holiday to everyone!! Also, Thanks to all that try to help others on here and have a genuine interest in making this a site full of good/useful information.
__________________
Darin Johnson
www.arboristsite.com
Our business is growing"

Pook is on ignor ,but this seems fitting....
Also - to quote the owner of arborist.com:

"TO ALL: After reading much of the information provided by Pook above, it seems to be misinformed and even dangerous in some cases. Please disregard any posts made by him before this post. I have informed him and will inform you all, if you are giving out bad information knowingly you will be banned from this site and if somebody gets hurt by your poor information, you could be personally liable. This could include jail time or be at the very least financially liable. You are personally liable for anything you say on here or any other website!!! Since there seems to be so many posts with poor/dangerous information, I feel it has to be on purpose as nobody can believe many of the things that have been said, which includes the poster.
Thanks!!! Have a Happy, warm Holiday to everyone!! Also, Thanks to all that try to help others on here and have a genuine interest in making this a site full of good/useful information.
__________________
Darin Johnson
www.arboristsite.com
Our business is growing"[/QUOTE]
 
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Pook is on ignor ,but this seems fitting....
Also - to quote the owner of arborist.com:

"TO ALL: After reading much of the information provided by Pook above, it seems to be misinformed and even dangerous in some cases. Please disregard any posts made by him before this post. I have informed him and will inform you all, if you are giving out bad information knowingly you will be banned from this site and if somebody gets hurt by your poor information, you could be personally liable. This could include jail time or be at the very least financially liable. You are personally liable for anything you say on here or any other website!!! Since there seems to be so many posts with poor/dangerous information, I feel it has to be on purpose as nobody can believe many of the things that have been said, which includes the poster.
Thanks!!! Have a Happy, warm Holiday to everyone!! Also, Thanks to all that try to help others on here and have a genuine interest in making this a site full of good/useful information.
__________________
Darin Johnson
www.arboristsite.com
Our business is growing"
[/QUOTE]ya, ignore me instead of posting facts & figures.. why u choose to demean me when i suggest a means of burning sawdust, turds, urine in a horsebarn?
 
now think= guy has horsebarrn+++ & i said i sawdust + urine + catturds burn very well when mixed with added sdust within the bin= its a disposal issue as might be with horses or BS from u..........

ya, ignore me instead of posting facts & figures.. why u choose to demean me when i suggest a means of burning sawdust, turds, urine in a horsebarn?

:monkey: :blob2::monkey:

So... why:

1. is someone who burns sawdust in a reclaimed minnow basket in a modified pellet stove, who admits the explosions when the minnow basket burned through, were probably not good for the glass in their stove, and

2. is someone who advances burning cat urine/solid feces soaked sawdust in a sawdust burner,

even posting on a wood burning forum?

Shari

:monkey: :blob2::monkey:
 
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:monkey: :blob2::monkey:

So... why:

1. is someone who burns sawdust in a reclaimed minnow basket in a modified pellet stove, who admits the explosions when the minnow basket burned through, were probably not good for the glass in their stove, and

2. is someone who advances burning cat urine/solid feces soaked sawdust in a sawdust burner,

even posting on a wood burning forum?

Shari

:monkey: :blob2::monkey:
its learning from experiences & seeking all data which should be available. the guy runs a horsefarm! venius
 
:monkey: :blob2::monkey:

So... why:

1. is someone who burns sawdust in a reclaimed minnow basket in a modified pellet stove, who admits the explosions when the minnow basket burned through, were probably not good for the glass in their stove, and

2. is someone who advances burning cat urine/solid feces soaked sawdust in a sawdust burner,

even posting on a wood burning forum?

Shari

:monkey: :blob2::monkey:

Shari...
I'm sure you know what it is like dealing with a 5 year old...Mommy why does the sun come up?
Well son it's like this...earth is a planet and it is a part of the solar sytem the earth revolves around and the sun helps to grow our food.
Son...why
The sun is a part of a plants photosynthisis. In that process the plants also make oxygen that we need to breath.
Son why?
So on and so forth for 30 minutes then Mom finally says that the earth is warmed by the sun.....so it's warm out...do you want to go to the lake and go swimming
...sure the son say's...and can we get an ice cream cone too?

The moral is that the son never understood anything until he was asked to go to the lake.

Does this remind you of anyone Shari?
Your best bet is following Darin's advice....I did....and to the OP once again sorry for the hijacking of your thread...

Happily on ignor of Pook!

Also - to quote the owner of arborist.com:

"TO ALL: After reading much of the information provided by Pook above, it seems to be misinformed and even dangerous in some cases. Please disregard any posts made by him before this post. I have informed him and will inform you all, if you are giving out bad information knowingly you will be banned from this site and if somebody gets hurt by your poor information, you could be personally liable. This could include jail time or be at the very least financially liable. You are personally liable for anything you say on here or any other website!!! Since there seems to be so many posts with poor/dangerous information, I feel it has to be on purpose as nobody can believe many of the things that have been said, which includes the poster.
Thanks!!! Have a Happy, warm Holiday to everyone!! Also, Thanks to all that try to help others on here and have a genuine interest in making this a site full of good/useful information.
__________________
Darin Johnson
www.arboristsite.com
Our business is growing"[/QUOTE]
 
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the son went to the temple & trashed the moneymakers? who thereafter silenced him
 
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I am replying to your question about the efficiency of heating hot water and storing it. The main reason for doing this is to allow the gasification boiler to run full bore until it consumes all the wood, and then shut down. You get the greatest efficiency out of the boiler this way, and you reduce smoke and pollution due to the smoldering that occurs when conventional OWBs shut down and then restart. As long as the storage tank is well insulated, it won't lose much heat, and it will extend the time between burns. Many times, I can get away with one 5 hour burn / day.
 
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