ChainLightning
Vintage Saw Stalker
A friend told me this. This new gas sucks so bad that Carb's can't handle it no more. Any more info on this?
Stihl switching to fuel injection soon?
- Thread starter ChainLightning
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BloodOnTheIce
Addicted to ArboristSite
They have a model of TS cut off machine coming out with fuel injection sometime in the spring 2012.
logging22
Cuttin to live, livin to cut
Are pics available yet??
Tzed250
Addicted to ArboristSite
They have already introduced a brushcutter with EFI
I beleive that was M-Tronic not fuel injected.
novaman64
ArboristSite Operative
I wonder how much weight FI would add. I would asssume it would need a fuel pump of sorts...
Chris-PA
Where the Wild Things Are
If it's a materials compatibility issue I don't see why EFI would be some magic bullet. A carb makes more sense to me in a saw, as I can't imagine the added weight and complexity of a pump would be worth it. What's important is some kind of feedback system to adjust the mixture, which is what I think they're starting to do now with carbs.
OTOH, if they've been really clever maybe they can do injection without too much complexity, and if they could manage to do direct injection into the cylinder then it could be a big improvement.
OTOH, if they've been really clever maybe they can do injection without too much complexity, and if they could manage to do direct injection into the cylinder then it could be a big improvement.
If they did direct injection into the cylinder then you would have to put oil into the crank case, loosing all position running.
FATGUY
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so why not direct into the crank case?
Warped5
WingNut
Kinda lost me on this one ... why would the need for oil in the crankcase inhibit all-position running?
The Boxster-style engines used by Porsche and Subaru (and others) are flat configurations and have oil in ccase .. :msp_confused:
sps3172
ArboristSite Member
There are 'hybrid' systems that send the idle mixture (and premix lube) through the bottom end of the engine, and supplement that with fuel only, through DI.
This defeats the purpose of DI in a 2-stroke. When injecting 'directly', the fuel is applied to the combustion chamber after the exhaust port closes (to prevent short circuiting of mixture out exhaust port). When you send fuel through the crankcase, then all the shortcomings of 2-cycle porting (from emissions/efficiency standpoint) are still in play.
Those are 4-cycle engines. They don't rely on lube that is pre-mixed with the fuel....they have oil in the crankcase.
For the same reason they don't make 4-stroke chain saws now. Turn it upside down and oil hits the piston. It froths the oil, hurts horse power and and some slips by the rings and makes hell of a smoke cloud.
user 64030
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And the oil pump is out now out of the oil, and lubes the bearings with air.... :frown:
They may be looking at something like the '60's era Corvette that had a mechanical vs electronic FI. No computer to run things... I see FI as a burden on a saw. A ECM is required to control injector timing, fuel ratio, the whole 9-yards.
If they can make this work, it will sure be expensive to hot-rod the thing. Have to buy a digital programmer, or software for a laptop...
Hmm not sure I have room for my laptop in my tool bag.
dw
Hey,
EFCO -Italy-
has certain saw models which are fuel injected using their patented Burn Right devise. It is a special chamber that accumulates fuel mix using a reed valve, and some of the carb mix is sent to the crankcase to lube the lower end bearings, meanwhile, the pressure pulses from the piston charge up the fuel accumulation chamber and use sonic waves to cause the fuel to inject into the chamber through a small port .
I think the MT4000 is a model that has this devise.
No electronics
No bulky parts
No service or adjustments needed
EFCO -Italy-
has certain saw models which are fuel injected using their patented Burn Right devise. It is a special chamber that accumulates fuel mix using a reed valve, and some of the carb mix is sent to the crankcase to lube the lower end bearings, meanwhile, the pressure pulses from the piston charge up the fuel accumulation chamber and use sonic waves to cause the fuel to inject into the chamber through a small port .
I think the MT4000 is a model that has this devise.
No electronics
No bulky parts
No service or adjustments needed
sps3172
ArboristSite Member
Very interesting. Thanks for pointing this out. Now off to do some reading.....
Warped5
WingNut
Something else just occurred to me ..
.. didn't Stihl buy carb maker Zama?
Related to this topic?
.. didn't Stihl buy carb maker Zama?
Related to this topic?
sps3172
ArboristSite Member
I haven't seen anything factual, but I've 'heard' from some friends working in the industry that Stihl owns Zama....but not Zama USA. Who knows?
Some cars (automobiles?) went through a phase in the Eighties of carbs that tried to compensate for all sorts of running conditions a bit like the latest carbs on saws. It turned out to be only a half way house to full electronic fuel injection which proved much more reliable. Whether they can make it as light, cheap and small enough for a saw only time will tell. My feeling is that FI will win out.
As regards the cars I had an Audi with one of the "clever" carbs and nightmare does not even come close to describing the pleasure of owning it. I bought it over a fuel injected later model as I thought it would be easier to maintain but got that one wrong.
By the way what are the latest thoughts on VHS or Betamax?
As regards the cars I had an Audi with one of the "clever" carbs and nightmare does not even come close to describing the pleasure of owning it. I bought it over a fuel injected later model as I thought it would be easier to maintain but got that one wrong.
By the way what are the latest thoughts on VHS or Betamax?
Warped5
WingNut
Betamax clearly had the better picture .. tune in next week to our discussion on Laser Disc technology!
The Burning Rom
ArboristSite Operative
When I was in last month for a carb kit for my MS200, they told me that Stihl had bought one of the carb makers (didn't know which one) and that 'some carbs were now almost as cheap as a carb kit'. He couldn't find the correct carb for my saw though, so I ended up with the $17 rebuild kit :msp_mellow:
