441 vs.460

[Officer's Match]

Then here's your setup, a 441R M-Tronic, ported, mm'd and a 20" Sugi Hara with full chisel chain.

 

[LAH]

And that Sir is a thing of beauty.:smile2:

 

[homelitejim]

In that size wood you will not notice the difference in power between the 441-460 or even the 660.

 

[novaman64]

Been running my 441CM through its paces, the 440 hardly gets looked at anymore... My buddy with his 460BB wants to sell it and get a 441CM after spending some time with my 441CM. He likes the not re-tuning since we cut from 28-100 degree weather and altitudes from sea level to 7000k feet. Plus its a super broad power band, and the filter pretty much hardly ever needs to be cleaned, not to mention the MPG. And after not running it for a couple weeks, being able to show up on a sight, throw gas and oil in, then fire it up with a max of 3 pulls.

441CM, 30" cedar, didnt bring a maul, and couldnt load the rounds, so after I bucked, I ripped/quartered the rounds.

441CM, huge oak tree, got hired to remove it because it was partially rotten and was dropping massive limbs. Scary drop because part of the trunk was rotten so it started to go where it wanted. Should have tied and pulled it... Heres on day 2 after it was all brushed out and we started bucking.. My 441CM burried with the 30" full skip semi chisel. Was out cutting the 575XP, my buddy running my saw in this pic has a 575 and said he was amazed at how well my saw cut, hes gonna buy one too. I think Stihl needs to hire me as a salesman, I can just go around and let people run my saw.... haha...

I really need to get my video working again....

 

[Stihlman441]

As far as i am concerned these new 441Cs are the ants pants(i have not run a stock one yet) but i dont understand why over your way why the dealers dont have demo saws,have them in stock on the self,this have to order one in is bull sh_t.What are they afraid off,what it probably is they will not come back for a tune up and the dealer will miss out on this return income.
These new auto tune saws are so much more efficient, productive and user friendly than the old style saws its not funny,and guys with little knowledge with tunning and a lot of small time firewood cutters will love the very low maintenance required on these saws.
At my local Stihl dealer in Ozz they still do not have 441C MTronics yet ?,i was talking to a young bloke these that is into racing saws and i told him i had a ported 441C his eyes lit up and he asked me if he could run it,yep i said its in the ute.Well he was like a fat kid in a lolly shop,he loved it and went and got the boss for him to give it a run,they were both very impressed as the questions come flying from both of them to find out all about it.I had the 28'' ES Lite bar on it as well (which we dont have over here) they were all over that as well,at the end the young bloke said 'ya dont need a 660 for felling anymore do ya' bingo he has worked it out.:smile2:

 

[flashhole]

You guys are making me think I wasted my money on my 460. NOT!

My thinking of the 460 is analagous to the big block V-8 that runs at modest RPMs vs the small block that revs the heck out of itself to get to the same level of performance. Both are impressive, but years from now the big block is still doing everything it was the day it was sold and the small block is used up. Just one man's opinion. I'm wearing my target so I guess I'm ready for the dart throwing.

That's a really nice looking rig by the way.

 

[jeepyfz450]

You guys are making me think I wasted my money on my 460. NOT!

My thinking of the 460 is analagous to the big block V-8 that runs at modest RPMs vs the small block that revs the heck out of itself to get to the same level of performance. Both are impressive, but years from now the big block is still doing everything it was the day it was sold and the small block is used up. Just one man's opinion. I'm wearing my target so I guess I'm ready for the dart throwing.

That's a really nice looking rig by the way.

nah you gotta just buy both...... thats what i am hoping to do.

 

[flashhole]

I want to expand my chainsaw stable too but since I have the 460 I'm leaning toward a 261 as the next purchase. I'm just a farm owner and my only needs are firewood. I don't depend on this equipment to make a living. My near term "desire" is for a top handle saw I can use in my apple orchard. I have a dozen trees in need of attention and will be putting my 55 Rancher to work in Feb. It's a bit clutzy for this kind of work and I fell off the ladder last year (damn ladder rung broke while standing on it), that was exciting. My old butt hit the ground pretty hard.

 

[flashhole]

Hey novaman - that's a pretty impressive piece of timber. Thanks for sharing the pic.

 

[LAH]

In that size wood you will not notice the difference in power between the 441-460 or even the 660.

Thank you Sir.

 

[novaman64]

As far as i am concerned these new 441Cs are the ants pants(i have not run a stock one yet) but i dont understand why over your way why the dealers dont have demo saws,have them in stock on the self,this have to order one in is bull sh_t.What are they afraid off,what it probably is they will not come back for a tune up and the dealer will miss out on this return income.

Dunno.. When I went to my dealer, they had never heard of it, and all they could say was that the old MS441 didnt get good reviews by the fallers in the area (we have a few big falling companies that do alow of timber where I live) and hence werent selling. They mostly sold/sell MS460's in full wrap and occasionally 660's (and then the Husky equivalent to both saws). After mine came in the counter guy was sure to tell me "I hope you know how to work on that thing, cuz we wont, we dont have the computers". Clearly allot of the dealers got zero education on the saw form the factory...

I actually ran into a manager of a falling company a week or so ago at the local watering hole, we were BS'ing about saws, he has a couple MS460's that the company provides to the landing crew, the fallers run their own saws. I was telling him about my 441 and how the carb compensates and changes, and his response was "I dont like that, I wanna be in 100% control of the saw". I guess you jsut cant change the way some people think... To each their own, as for me, anything that makes my job easier Im all about. :msp_thumbup:

 

[user 64030]

....his response was "I dont like that, I wanna be in 100% control of the saw". I guess you just cant change the way some people think...

It amazes me at times that people think they can out think a computer. Even one as basic as the Mtronic brain. It likely processes data at several hundred megahertz MHz, and that is cycles per second. A carb w/ a hi-lo adjustment can only compensate based on a fixed setting made by the user, but cannot compensate over the entire RPM range. A user would need a 3rd had turning the hi/lo settings through the entire cut.

Tell ya one thing, this thread almost has me wishing I had gotten the 441 C-M, but I am happy w/ what I got.


dw

 

[sawfun9]

My Stihl dealer sells to a lot of fallers and told me, they either want the old 044's or the new 460's (they may not know about new 440's). He said that there's nothing wrong with the 441, the fallers just don't like the feel of them. He was referring to the spring AV and the torque curve. It seems the fallers chose Stihl so they can feel where they're at in the wood. I imagine that's why these particular fellows don't run Huskies. And they like the older peaky power curve over the new wider range one. I also imagine they don't like to change what they feel works for them.

 

[Slamm]

You guys are making me think I wasted my money on my 460. NOT!

My thinking of the 460 is analagous to the big block V-8 that runs at modest RPMs vs the small block that revs the heck out of itself to get to the same level of performance. Both are impressive, but years from now the big block is still doing everything it was the day it was sold and the small block is used up. Just one man's opinion. I'm wearing my target so I guess I'm ready for the dart throwing.

That's a really nice looking rig by the way.

??? They turn basically the same RPM's, and I have 441's that have a lot of logging miles on them and zero problems, not a few problems, zero. In that time I have used a lot less fuel and cut more wood due to a lot less times having to stop and fill the tank. The cost of gas isn't much but it adds up at $3-4 per gallon. The real benefit is at the end of the day I might have cut 1-4 more trees as a result of less stopping and walking back and forth to the fuel jugs or getting out of my "groove" to waste time fueling up. Now that does add up to a production positive.

Local example:
If a cutter is getting 3 cents a board foot and cuts one extra 300 board foot tree per production day as a result of not screwing around with filling up the tank as much as you do with a non-strato'd saw, then that's $9 per tree per day, 5 day work week adds up to $45 extra per week or an extra $180 per month over the not any faster non-strato'd saw. I run modded Strato'd saws, and they are very efficient and powerful. I have several videos of me cutting decent trees down in 3 minutes give or take, so its not beyond the scope of reason to think that if you have to fill up 2 less times per day you could easily cut at least two more trees per day. That $18 more money made per day, stuff like that adds up. Also I can get 441's for mid $700's, where as the 460's are $100 more.

The M-Tronics version of the 441 is quite close to if not faster than a non-strato'd saws's performance and is a pure pleasure to operate. A modded 441 is likely faster than a 460and still more fuel efficient, certainly for the work performed it is more efficient.

I'm with Stihlman441, in that fact that we don't really have much, if any use for 660 anymore for 28" bar and less. I have a very, fast, modded 660 and I basically never use it, because it isn't faster than its inefficient fuel consumption and weight, and that is on flat ground, hills would only make a 660 worse. The 460 is simple a joke by comparison to a 441 M-Tronics or modded 441 when it comes to production cutting of timber as it simply uses to much fuel for the same amount of wood cut. It is a rare, rare soul that thinks or feels otherwise, if you run a 460 a lot and then run a 441 you will waste a lot of time looking into the fuel tank on the 441 wondering when it will finally be empty, LOL.

None of the above is meant as a slight against the Legendary 460 if you have one, you have a very good saw, but if the measure is efficient cutting of wood and operator comfort, then the 441 M-Tronics is the clear winner, and it doesn't make any difference what size bar you want to do that comparison with 20-48", because the 460 isn't going to win that contest, I've tried them too many times. They might win in cookie cutting contests and that will only be by a few seconds, but they will loose everywhere else, by minutes and dollars.

I'm the type that doesn't care about legendary this or that, I want tools that help make me money. It is my opinion, that the 441 is such a tool, in M-Tronics or modded form it is quite exceptional.

My experience and opinion,

Sam

 

[sawfun9]

No argument from me, I was just stating a dealers experiences with the fallers attitude toward the saw. Personally I'd buy a 441 over the 460 just because they're about $200 less, and I don't think the 460 is worth the price difference. Anything you can do with a 460 you can do with a 441, just a bit slower using longer bars or in harder wood. And I do like the wider power curve of the 441. And if I cut all day I'd probably appreciate the spring AV as well.

 

[TommySaw]

My 441 M-Tronic is waayy easier on fuel than my 460. However, to say that you can run the 441 all day on a single tank of fuel just isn't accurate, in my experience anyway. I haven't tested fuel economy side-by-side with the 2 saws but as an educated guess, I would say the 460 uses two tanks to the 441's one tank.

in my experience the 460 goes through 3 tanks of fuel for every 2 tanks with the 441.

 

[TommySaw]

Guess of these two saws the 441 would be better for me? I run nothing longer than a 20" bar. 99% of what I cut are firewood logs. I was thinking a 460 would be better since it has more power for the same weight. But maybe I don't need anymore power than the 441 especially with the more cuts per tank I would get. Most of that which I cut looks like this.

that looks like a nice job for a 60cc saw:msp_thumbsup:

 

[LAH]

that looks like a nice job for a 60cc saw:msp_thumbsup:

When I only cut for myself I used an 028 Super Woods Boss. It was/is a great saw. I only sold it cause of it's age. I used it after I moved to my present location & began to sell wood. After 2 years on the wood lot I purchased a used 034 to help out. Now I'm down to one saw & to make matters worse my friend just gave his Stihl dealership up. The dealer I use now doesn't know me & my saw will have to stand in line for repairs. The last time it was there 40 some days.

So I need another saw. My 034 will pull the 20" bar fine but a little more speed would be nice. For that reason this thread really caught my eye & I for one an thankful for all who took the time to post findings & feelings.:smile2:

 

[user 64030]

....The dealer I use now doesn't know me & my saw will have to stand in line for repairs. The last time it was there 40 some days....

Go buy a new 441 M-tronic from that dealer and he'll know you well enough.

:biggrin: Funny how thos big purchases get you known.

dw

 

[LAH]

Go buy a new 441 M-tronic from that dealer and he'll know you well enough.

:biggrin: Funny how thos big purchases get you known.

dw

That's what I'm looking at.