The New MS461 M-Tronic

[Evan]

Saws from the last decade seem to be the gold standerd ABS I feel will be unroll we go fuel injected.

 

[Rounder]

My 460 and little orange screw driver seem to work well together...

 

[user 64030]

i know it isnt a MS461... but the technology is now on the market.... maybe on the 461 for sure on the 661

TS 500i STIHL Cutquik® Cut-off Machine - YouTube

So... Who is gonna go buy one and convert it to a chainsaw first

dw

 

[Anthony_Va.]

I've opted against a 460 in hopes that the 461 would be all that in a bag of chips. But anymore I get the feeling it will be a letdown. If it doesnt come with the M-tron I don't want it.

Basically, if it's a 441 on steroids and has spring AV then I'm on it and will most likeyl rid myself of my 660 for one. Unless I can afford to have both.

I'm with Sam (slamm) on the spring AV. When you run these saws everyday the vibes can get really annoying. My hands don't need anymore pain in them, they already have enough.

 

[2dogs]

No, no the vibes are those things that you start to really feel after about the 4th 10+ hour day of holding onto the thing, then do that for weeks and months and then years and pretty soon you won't be asking "what vibes?", your hands, wrists and forearms will explain the definition of "vibes" to your brain quite clearly.

If you don't run a saw very much or are a lot tougher than others then carry on, its a legend of a saw.

Sam

It is a terrible feeling when I wake up a 3am with my hands numb and my elbows in pain. I wear copper bracelets and that really seems to help. At the end of some days I can't write with a pen at all. The 090 is the worst but I don't use it all that often. The MS260 is next, the 441 is best of all my big saws.

 

[farmerdoug]

Reality of the 461 M Tronic

Reality is that they probably won't be coming out with my dream saw until after my boys are old enough to run one. I will be watching them enjoy what I have been waiting for from the view of my wheel chair:msp_smile:.
View attachment 220183

 

[Slamm]

Reality is that they probably won't be coming out with my dream saw until after my boys are old enough to run one. I will be watching them enjoy what I have been waiting for from the view of my wheel chair:msp_smile:.
View attachment 220183

I really don't grasp what the big whoop is about the 461, the 441 has been out for years, it has been out with the Mtronic package for some time now ................. maybe one person has had problems with it ....... maybe, not sure if we ever heard back about that situation, and it is everything and a bag of chips, in modded form so much the better, and its cheaper than a 460 or 461.

I'll get a 461 for CAD reasons, but not because I actually think it will blow the socks off of the 441 Mtronic in performance or production, I sure am not holding my breath for one.

Like I have said before the 441 Mtronic is simply too nice of a saw for many chainsaw users to grasp, I really think Stihl is smart in offering a lower tech, "still has one foot in the 2-3 decades old technology" concept of the lengendary 460 because it is such a great seller, I think based on the mindset of a lot of those that use saws that won't or are too scared to run something different or new or more efficient. The biggest genius will be if Stihl has enough EPA credits to not have to offer it in a Strato form, but something like the 361, that way the Stihl salesman can tell the "oldtimer", "Yeah, its not one of them new fangled Strato saws." .................... SOLD!!!!!!!

That alone will sell countless millions more of them, LOL.

Then, if they will keep the old style rubber mounts on the "new" 461, that will sell even more, as here on Arboristsite, I have had to read over the years of countless users that can't seem to figure out where the bar is on a steel spring'd 441, its like they mount the bar on the side of the 441, then start the saw and whoosh, the bar disappears, they can't figure out where the tip is and something about they can't feel the bar or the "cut", NO $NIT!!!!! Can you imagine being a Stihl engineer and offering some totally smooth AV system and letting some yahoo run it and he says, " I can't feel the Bar or the Cut." and the Stihl Engineer, thinks to himself, "Great, I've hit a home run here, we'll sell millions, I'll get a promotion." Then the test group asks for the rubber mounted 460 back so that they can feel the vibes, LOL.

If you think about it, the marketing or thinking behind the 461 might be similar to say the proven Harley motorcycle profits, offer technology that is decades old and millions and millions of ignorant consumers will buy it because their dad or grandpa used one, efficiency or comfort be dammed. I applaud, Stihl for this, as it will allow them to keep profitable and the overall saw lineup and proven service at a top level rate, and this I do care about greatly.

Sam

 

[MCW]

If Stihl release a 461 strato without the M-Tronic attached then they are pretty well wasting their time as the 441C will tan it's butt.
As many would know I owned a strato MS261 which I sold then bought a 241C M-Tronic which has a capacity of around 7.6cc less (around 15% less capacity). The difference in performance is negligible between the two with a MASSIVE edge in throttle response to the 241C. I think it would be safe to assume that a 70cc M-Tronic saw will pump a strato 76.5cc saw as that is only around a 9% capacity difference for the M-Tronic to cover. That isn't even taking into account fuel economy or broader power curve/usability.

I'm no Stihl fanboy but I tell you what, I'm all over this M-Tronic (and X-Torq) technology like a fat kid on a cupcake. It makes a bigger difference to a saw's performance than the naysayers give it credit for. Imagine laying into a 42.6cc saw and hearing it just load up and keep going instead of bogging down which is what you'd expect it to do. In fact I find it amusing just to push it harder in the cut to see how much more torque it can produce

Now if Stihl can just get a 70cc+ M-Tronic saw that balances like a Husky...

 

[MCW]

I really don't grasp what the big whoop is about the 461, the 441 has been out for years, it has been out with the Mtronic package for some time now ................. maybe one person has had problems with it ....... maybe, not sure if we ever heard back about that situation, and it is everything and a bag of chips, in modded form so much the better, and its cheaper than a 460 or 461.

I'll get a 461 for CAD reasons, but not because I actually think it will blow the socks off of the 441 Mtronic in performance or production, I sure am not holding my breath for one.

Like I have said before the 441 Mtronic is simply too nice of a saw for many chainsaw users to grasp, I really think Stihl is smart in offering a lower tech, "still has one foot in the 2-3 decades old technology" concept of the lengendary 460 because it is such a great seller, I think based on the mindset of a lot of those that use saws that won't or are too scared to run something different or new or more efficient. The biggest genius will be if Stihl has enough EPA credits to not have to offer it in a Strato form, but something like the 361, that way the Stihl salesman can tell the "oldtimer", "Yeah, its not one of them new fangled Strato saws." .................... SOLD!!!!!!!

That alone will sell countless millions more of them, LOL.

Then, if they will keep the old style rubber mounts on the "new" 461, that will sell even more, as here on Arboristsite, I have had to read over the years of countless users that can't seem to figure out where the bar is on a steel spring'd 441, its like they mount the bar on the side of the 441, then start the saw and whoosh, the bar disappears, they can't figure out where the tip is and something about they can't feel the bar or the "cut", NO $NIT!!!!! Can you imagine being a Stihl engineer and offering some totally smooth AV system and letting some yahoo run it and he says, " I can't feel the Bar or the Cut." and the Stihl Engineer, thinks to himself, "Great, I've hit a home run here, we'll sell millions, I'll get a promotion." Then the test group asks for the rubber mounted 460 back so that they can feel the vibes, LOL.

If you think about it, the marketing or thinking behind the 461 might be similar to say the proven Harley motorcycle profits, offer technology that is decades old and millions and millions of ignorant consumers will buy it because their dad or grandpa used one, efficiency or comfort be dammed. I applaud, Stihl for this, as it will allow them to keep profitable and the overall saw lineup and proven service at a top level rate, and this I do care about greatly.

Sam

Hi Sam.
Please accept my refined and shortened version of your post...

"I want it cause my pappy heard a spring broked once. Sure, my pappy can't feel his hands from nerve damage but..."

 

[dave k]

Well after having my one for just over a year or so I think it's a great saw but as it's at the moment pretty rare I haven't used it as much as perhaps I should have ? It got good power compared to a 460 it's smoother than a 460 despite rubber AV and as for fuel pretty much the same. The Artic option works so well the handles seem to hot sometimes and it's one of the best starting stock saws I have.
I've been running it with a 24" bar for most of the time with an 8 pin sprocket and it just pulls very well and as mdavlee mentioned after watching a vid of it running with several saws " a MM and it would be up with the ported 372 " and that was with a 30" full comp on that day.

Only time will tell how it will appear and I suspect that Stihl are paying close attention to how the 441 M Tronic is recieved and performs in the workplace as they refine the 461 ready for launch.

 

[SawTroll]

If Stihl release a 461 strato without the M-Tronic attached then they are pretty well wasting their time as the 441C will tan it's butt. ......

Maybe, but the 460 actually is a tad lighter than the basic 441 - but then you have the difference in AV and air filtration, that may change the picture to some....:msp_wink:

 

[Ross]

If Stihl release a 461 strato without the M-Tronic attached then they are pretty well wasting their time as the 441C will tan it's butt.
As many would know I owned a strato MS261 which I sold then bought a 241C M-Tronic which has a capacity of around 7.6cc less (around 15% less capacity). The difference in performance is negligible between the two with a MASSIVE edge in throttle response to the 241C. I think it would be safe to assume that a 70cc M-Tronic saw will pump a strato 76.5cc saw as that is only around a 9% capacity difference for the M-Tronic to cover. That isn't even taking into account fuel economy or broader power curve/usability.

I'm no Stihl fanboy but I tell you what, I'm all over this M-Tronic (and X-Torq) technology like a fat kid on a cupcake. It makes a bigger difference to a saw's performance than the naysayers give it credit for. Imagine laying into a 42.6cc saw and hearing it just load up and keep going instead of bogging down which is what you'd expect it to do. In fact I find it amusing just to push it harder in the cut to see how much more torque it can produce

Now if Stihl can just get a 70cc+ M-Tronic saw that balances like a Husky...

Ok so seriously the 241 and 261 are that close in performance??? I'm still trying to figure out which saw to go with in the 40-50cc range and figure I might as well sit things out for a while until the new Huskys are release and Stihl figures out what their doing with their small saw lineup.

 

[MCW]

Ok so seriously the 241 and 261 are that close in performance??? I'm still trying to figure out which saw to go with in the 40-50cc range and figure I might as well sit things out for a while until the new Huskys are release and Stihl figures out what their doing with their small saw lineup.

Yeah they are. I was even running a 20" Tsumura on my MS261 (stock) with 3/8" semi chisel and I know for sure the little 241C wouldn't do that but anything 18" or under with .325" and I'd take the 241C anyday. A few guys that have bought one have even chosen the 3/8"LP option and been very happy. The biggest issue I had with the 261 was sluggish throttle response and the fact that until I pulled the H limiter and richened it up it was an absolute slug. The 241C is a little Ferrari out the box.

 

[deye223]

Yeah they are. I was even running a 20" Tsumura on my MS261 (stock) with 3/8" semi chisel and I know for sure the little 241C wouldn't do that but anything 18" or under with .325" and I'd take the 241C anyday. A few guys that have bought one have even chosen the 3/8"LP option and been very happy. The biggest issue I had with the 261 was sluggish throttle response and the fact that until I pulled the H limiter and richened it up it was an absolute slug. The 241C is a little Ferrari out the box.

show him the green redgum vid matt

 

[Ross]

I've seen the video and it looks impressive, just didn't know they would be that close. I didn't realize you are running .325 though, I thought it was 3/8LP.

 

[MCW]

I've seen the video and it looks impressive, just didn't know they would be that close. I didn't realize you are running .325 though, I thought it was 3/8LP.

Yeah it was .325" semi chisel and was actually setup relatively aggressively. Green Redgum is relatively hard compared to your average US timbers but some of your harder stuff would be tougher.
I'm currently sourcing a .325" rim setup for it (241C specific unfortunately so can't source from the US) and I may try to run an 8 pin .325" rim on it. There is no doubt though that with longer bars, more aggressive chains, and harder wood a 261 would pull away just with torque but if you just used a 16" bar like many would the 241C would probably level peg a stock 261 in a flat out cutting race but as far as in tree or limbing it is absolutely no contest with the 241 winning hands down.

 

[SawTroll]

Yeah they are. I was even running a 20" Tsumura on my MS261 (stock) with 3/8" semi chisel and I know for sure the little 241C wouldn't do that but anything 18" or under with .325" and I'd take the 241C anyday. A few guys that have bought one have even chosen the 3/8"LP option and been very happy. The biggest issue I had with the 261 was sluggish throttle response and the fact that until I pulled the H limiter and richened it up it was an absolute slug. The 241C is a little Ferrari out the box.

A sluggish throttle response is a major letdown on any saw, that is one of the reasons I mostly choose the Huskys, except for the German made MS361, even though the Huskys mostly cost at least 50% more than the comparable Stihls here....

 

[MCW]

A sluggish throttle response is a major letdown on any saw, that is one of the reasons I mostly choose the Huskys, except for the German made MS361, even though the Huskys mostly cost at least 50% more than the comparable Stihls here....

I agree Niko. It's all good to talk about strato and torque etc but throttle response is one reason I favour the Huskys and Dolmars in larger saws as they tend to get up and down quicker whereas Stihl's larger non M-Tronic are more like a tractor (as a rule). I mean I kept my basic "homeowner" Husky 353 in favour of my MS261 despite it having an outboard clutch, older design, and a poorer filter (amongst other things). In smaller saws throttle response is more important than torque. As the saw gets larger this becomes the opposite although I still favour the Husky and Dolmar's faster throttle response over the MS660's etc.

 

[SawTroll]

I agree Niko. It's all good to talk about strato and torque etc but throttle response is one reason I favour the Huskys and Dolmars in larger saws as they tend to get up and down quicker whereas Stihl's larger non M-Tronic are more like a tractor (as a rule). I mean I kept my basic "homeowner" Husky 353 in favour of my MS261 despite it having an outboard clutch, older design, and a poorer filter (amongst other things). In smaller saws throttle response is more important than torque. As the saw gets larger this becomes the opposite although I still favour the Husky and Dolmar's faster throttle response over the MS660's etc.

I mostly agree, but not about Dolmars having a good throttle response, quite the opposite with my 5100S, despite I richened the "L" quite a bit - it just doesn't want to rev up anywhere close to my NE346xp....

It wasn't a big surprice to me, but it may be to some others - and the 346 also was faster in the cut than the 5100S (that is rated at more power) with .325x7, .325x8 and 3/8x7, with new Oregon LP chain, filed once, in 7" and 11" birch (16" bars). The differences wasn't large though, but the 346xp with .325x7 was fastest in both wood sizes. No surprice there, at least not to me - but the specs disagee! :msp_smile:

 

[MCW]

I mostly agree, but not about Dolmars having a good throttle response, quite the opposite with my 5100S, despite I richened the "L" quite a bit - it just doesn't want to rev up anywhere close to my NE346xp....

It wasn't a big surprice to me, but it may be to some others - and the 346 also was faster in the cut than the 5100S (that is rated at more power) with .325x7, .325x8 and 3/8x7, with new Oregon LP chain, filed once, in 7" and 11" birch (16" bars). The differences wasn't large though, but the 346xp with .325x7 was fastest in both wood sizes. No surprice there, at least not to me - but the specs disagee! :msp_smile:

May just be our different saws Niko but my 5100-S was extremely snappy but only after I richened it up. I have a muffler modded Husky 353 which I assume has "similar" performance to a 346XP (never ran one) but if I hadn't have bought the little 241C I'd probably have a 346XP by now. One day I'd like one.
It's funny how paper specs alone don't tell the full story, just like on my MS261.