Anybody try a long bar on an MS-461 ? Not enough range in tensioner

[PA Plumber]

I count at least three times, mark the drive length to be cut, then check one more time before breaking.

Somehow I still end up with "shorties" once in a while.

 

[SawTroll]

Even with the chain guide Oregon supplies, I still check three times. It's a habit I started after screwing up a couple of chains, especially the stupid 91/92/93 DL hoo-hah between different manufacturers for 28" bars.

Also, it could happen that a loop cut for Husky mount bars inadvertedly ended up in a box marked for Stihl mount chain, as Stihl does make them - they just don't put them in the catalog.

 

[deye223]

just put the chain on the bar and hold it nose up there should be 6 drive links below the tail of the bar

 

[s219]

Obligatory fishing report: Didn't get back from striper fishing until 3am this morning, but I caught two nice fish and we just ate them for dinner!

I worked on the 461 this afternoon, and have solved the mystery. First, I put on the 28" bar/chain like I always do. Normally, I put the chain on the bar, loop the chain around the drive sprocket, slide the bar on the studs, tidy up the chain, put the clutch cover on, then put the bar nuts on finger tight (just enough to press the bar flat and get everything into alignment). Using this approach, it's not possible to tension the chain all the way, and I was again convinced there was too much chain or not enough adjustment.

So I pulled the clutch cover off, intent on taking some pictures and making some more measurements. With the cover off, I was able to tension the chain no problem, and what's more, it only took about half the range of the tensioner. I had a WTF moment, sure that I was losing my mind, but I put the clutch cover back on, fine tuned tension, and everything was great. Ran the saw to break in the bar/chain, and it's all good.

I went back to see what the issue might have been, and near as I can tell, the bar tensioner slider just doesn't have a lot of slop -- any sort of interference and it binds. If you crank the screw in that situation, the pressure pushes the end bushing of the threaded tensioner shaft (the bushing is the white nylon part on the right of the original pictures) and that bulges out a little, against the tensioner cover plate. I had seen that bulging the other day (you can see it looking under the clutch cover along the bar) and associated it with running the tensioner to the max setting, since the same thing happens in that case. So the saw was never actually running out of adjustment. Rather, the tensioner was stuck and the act of turning the screw had the same symptoms.

Interestingly, this whole issue does not happen with the 20" bar, only the 28" bar. Maybe it's a little thicker (paint?), maybe the tensioner pin hole is a little off (both have a blob of paint in them), or maybe the extra bar weight leaning out there changes the fit a little. But whatever the case, it's not easy to tension with the clutch cover on and the nuts finger tight.

I may take another look at the tensioner and see if I can maybe squirt some bar oil in there and help it loosen up. I'll also drill the paint blobs out of the tensioner pin holes in the bar. I have a feeling this problem will go away with time, but for now, the easy solution is to just adjust bar tension with the clutch cover off. I used to do it that way anyhow.

Anyhow, thanks for all the input guys -- that definitely helped me realize that the specs were all in line, and something else had to be at play. As usual, the mechanical problem came down to the "nut" operating the saw.

 

[lone wolf]

I'm glad that is solved now how good does that saw cut?

 

[TonyRumore]

Well....make sure you get the tensioner pin in the bar hole before you tighten it up. If you don't, you'll drive the pin into the case and it will punch a hole through the casing and into the oil tank. Remember that when someone asks you to borrow your saw.

 

[s219]

Well....make sure you get the tensioner pin in the bar hole before you tighten it up. If you don't, you'll drive the pin into the case and it will punch a hole through the casing and into the oil tank. Remember that when someone asks you to borrow your saw.

Of course, that goes without saying -- I always line up the pin first. But it's a good example why I never let anyone borrow my saws (they can borrow me running my saws anytime though).

 

[s219]

I'm glad that is solved now how good does that saw cut?

I hope to get out and cut with the 28" bar tomorrow. I've only done significant cutting with the 20" bar so far, and the 461 is pretty impressive. The throttle response is surprising for such a big saw -- it revs almost instantaneously.

 

[redoakneck]

Nice Fish!!! Glad you got it all figured out. I like the way dolmar has the pin on the clutch cover, a little less easy to f up.

 

[Majorpayne]

Nice Fish!!! Glad you got it all figured out. I like the way dolmar has the pin on the clutch cover, a little less easy to f up.

So does Echo.

 

[blsnelling]

So does Echo.

As do some Huskies.

 

[Mike-B]

Glad you've discovered the culprit.

I'm sure this is not the first time the distraction of some time spent fishing has resulted in renewed problem-solving clarity...

 

[speeco]

Ms-461

ha so i was right ! Just glad you found the problem. Happy cutting.:msp_smile:

 

[deye223]

I may take another look at the tensioner and see if I can maybe squirt some bar oil in there and help it loosen up.

oil ain't good enough use grease

 

[s219]

So here's the culprit -- globs of paint in the bar's tensioner holes:

View attachment 256864

It must have been causing the tensioner pin to push up or down and bind. Once I cleaned out the paint with a drill, it made a big difference -- the bar easily glides along now. While working on the bar, I also openened up and polished the oiler holes from this:

View attachment 256865

to this:

View attachment 256866

Even though the ES bar has that special angled oil hole, I found that my basic E bars, with simple round holes, were oiling way better. The angled hole in the ES bar is just too small. Hopefully this mod will help, otherwise I plan to drill out the angled hole and make it straight.

 

[splitpost]

Well....make sure you get the tensioner pin in the bar hole before you tighten it up. If you don't, you'll drive the pin into the case and it will punch a hole through the casing and into the oil tank. Remember that when someone asks you to borrow your saw.

if the 461 uses the same tensioner as the 460 thats impossible to do,there just isn't enough thread to get the bar nuts started with the sprocket cover in place

 

[wilson94t]

Similar problem with a 32" bar

I'm having a similar problem with the MS461 and a 32" bar. I'm just barely able to get the chain tensioned enough. I'll inspect the bar for the said paint issues and try to perform the adjustment with the cover off also. Thanks for posting this information.

My local shop does spin chain, so worst case, I'll get something slightly shorter. As with the initial posting, I noticed that the 461 has less chain tension adjustment as compared to my other saws. Seems unfortunate for an otherwise good unit.

 

[Gushh]

Are these bars painted or powder-coated?
I'm curious because I'd like to repaint some.

 

[s219]

I'm having a similar problem with the MS461 and a 32" bar. I'm just barely able to get the chain tensioned enough. I'll inspect the bar for the said paint issues and try to perform the adjustment with the cover off also. Thanks for posting this information.

My local shop does spin chain, so worst case, I'll get something slightly shorter. As with the initial posting, I noticed that the 461 has less chain tension adjustment as compared to my other saws. Seems unfortunate for an otherwise good unit.

I have since had the issue with another bar -- a Carlton SpeedTip 20" I use for milling. It wasn't the adjuster running out of range, rather, it just seemed to bind, giving the impression it ran out of range. I was able to loosen it up and re-tighten with no problems.

Based on this, I suspect the 461 might have a little too much slop in the slot the adjuster rides in, so that any little anomaly makes the adjuster bind. Just a guess. In all cases, loosening and re-tightening has solved the problem, so there is clearly enough range of adjustment when the mechanism is able to slide all the way.

 

[galde]

It is usually easier to adjust out the chain slack by wiggling the bar up and down while turning the adjustment screw. The adjusters don't apply much pulling force, but pushing the bar down jacks the bar outward and lifting it slacks the rearward force on the pin allowing the adjuster to take up this slack...