SugiHara group buy... Sugi's in the USA general info.

[watsonr]

Wanted to update everybody as to what's happening with this group buy and some info about the SugiHara brand as well.

I've had some serious conversations with the owner of HEV Inc. the sole importer of these bars to the United States market and to say I'm disappointed is an understatement!

They have never moved so many bars as the order I placed with them and we absolutely crushed them. Their inventory system needs a serious audit and so does the way they do business. Most bar sales are over the phone directly to you and your getting rock bottom prices with no regard for a distributor. That is making it not worth the time or effort to get the bars to you, they want to sell bulk, not one's-two's...... worst thing I got was that they don't really care about the end user of the bar sales in general and it is not the primary means of there business.

After some serious discussions, maybe they will change.... maybe not. I used current info to advise them taking into account desired bar sizes, mounting styles you guys like and want, pricing, availability I'd like to see for various saws... we can hope it didn't fall on deaf ears.

Small size bar info;
Offered plenty of advise and even gave several solutions without any resolution and they are reluctant to move. I'm reminded that they are the sole importer and that they can set the prices where they deem they can, order the quantity they want to carry and the mounting styles they think you want. The real problem is that nobody on their staff is a real user and that they have chosen to listen to a relatively small group of users that don't have much experience. Those users were a few people calling to order bars directly from them and were of a very narrow opinion. Basically saying "I don't care about other stuff, just the bars I want"... and this has killed the market for small mount Husky bars and small size Stihl. so much so, HEV is dropping the line entirely!

Lastly; The problem with the 24" bar is a part that helps make the bar slot is broken, and may take considerable time to fix. They can't and won't give a date as to when, I just get a "probably" some time after the new year. I'm not sure why they are so reluctant to hold the manufacturer to a delivery date, especially since they are the only importer to the US. Maybe because sales are slow, demand is down because they have failed to advertise correctly and feel that carrying the line is actually not that profitable to them. Having spoken with the Total Bar people (Tilton Inc. is the only importer of these), they don't carry the reduced weight bar or small Husky mount in the US either, both companies are probably of the same mindset and that truly is a shame for us... the end user!

This is very realistic to the aftermarket cylinder market as well... no demand for a better product, no real time feedback received and the feedback received was based on limited experience. One guy tried, wasn't heard from by the right guy and eventually gave up... the received info was misinterpreted and the company went the wrong direction causing a degraded supply or quality of the produce and eventually they dropped the line due to lack of interest.

Not what you wanted to hear, but the truth is the real answer we desire even when it hurts! Sorry it hasn't worked out better for all of us. I give you my word to not stop trying to improve relations between them and us, the approach I believe works best... honesty!

That said, I apologize for taking this long to get this figured out as it's been a month give or take a few days. I'll be refunding everybody who ordered a 24" large mount Husky bar in .050 gauge size. I've done everything I think is possible to help them overcome the back-order on the 24" Husky large mount bars and trying to get access to the smaller length bars.

Henry, the .058 24" you ordered is in.

One more time;
I've held all the orders with a 24" .050GA Husky bar because of the back order.... Refunds for the price of the 24" Husky bar will be sent to you email/PayPal and any other bars you ordered will be shipped in the next couple days. Sorry if this has caused a problem. If you ordered a 24" Husky bar singly, your bar price and shipping will be refunded.

Let me get these refunds done and the bars that are here out first before taking orders for anything more SugiHara bar wise.... please. Be glad to discuss further the issues stated above.

One option that I'm exploring....
I can get a Stihl mount 24" bar in .050 if you'd like that one instead and use the spacers. I believe this will work as I put a 32" Stihl bar on a Dolmar and the oil holes lined up. Dolmar has the same mounting pattern as the Husky, worked fine. If you'd like the Stihl mount 24" .050 GA bar instead of the Large Husky 24"... I'll supply the bar spacers with the bar to make them fit. I'm shipping the other bars first, giving refunds for Husky 24" bars and then I'll entertain the 24" Stihl bar in-place of the 24" Husky.

Solid type spacers are back ordered, I gave spring spacers to those who asked. If you ordered a solid type spacer and didn't get spring type to hold you over, tell me now and I'll get them out to you.

Randy

 

[watsonr]

Some of you will receive emails with tracking number very shortly if not already and others refunds.
Thanks again.
Randy

 

[XSKIER]

Thanks for the update. I'm stihl crossing my toes that a 16" stihl mount will come through!

 

[exSW]

This is disappointing

 

[watsonr]

There are only 6 major dealers and a couple smaller guys, they told me that there are no more than 10 total for the entire US... that's the sad part. Getting access to the bars is bad enough, getting a dealer and supplier who care is almost impossible. Get what you can while you can. I'll do another buy as I want this line to keep going, maybe limited to more popular sizes.... just don't stop buying them as they would rather just stop all together. They ARE in no hurry to sell seemed like and sounded almost bothered to deal with me. Took almost a week just to get an email reply of no change in the current order.

Sad actually that a business even survives with these practices.

 

[rbmopar]

Thanks for letting us know what is going on. I see the refund has already come through. I would prefer 3/8x.058 Husky mount as a replacement option. Gauge is not that big of a deal to me. Wether it's .058 Husky mount, or Stihl mount .050, I do still want the qty I ordered once you get everything sorted out.

 

[machinisttx]

Businesses survive with those practices because people keep buying from them. Sounds like someone else needs to convince the manufacturer that the U.S. needs another(or just different) distributor.

 

[srcarr52]

It sounds like someone else needs to start making a quality bar with lightweight plastic inserts.

BTW. That is complete BS that they can't put the mount groove in them without their punch press. They could just mill them in there but I guess that is too much effort for them.

 

[machinisttx]

It sounds like someone else needs to start making a quality bar with lightweight plastic inserts.

BTW. That is complete BS that they can't put the mount groove in them without their punch press. They could just mill them in there but I guess that is too much effort for them.

Milling a .05" to .063" slot to the depth required would take a fair bit of time, enough that you wouldn't want to pay the price when they were finished. Stamping is the only economical means.

 

[srcarr52]

Milling a .05" to .063" slot to the depth required would take a fair bit of time, enough that you wouldn't want to pay the price when they were finished. Stamping is the only economical means.

From my understanding it was the bar mount slot they couldn't make. Also the bar grooves are milled in and possible ground to final size I can't think of a way they could be stamped.

 

[machinisttx]

I'd love to see the milling process then. I can't think of a way to mill the groove economically. I can think of a rather easy way to stamp out laminated bars with the groove, oil holes, etc., already in them.

 

[ReggieT]

Wanted to update everybody as to what's happening with this group buy and some info about the SugiHara brand as well.

I've had some serious conversations with the owner of HEV Inc. the sole importer of these bars to the United States market and to say I'm disappointed is an understatement!

They have never moved so many bars as the order I placed with them and we absolutely crushed them. Their inventory system needs a serious audit and so does the way they do business. Most bar sales are over the phone directly to you and your getting rock bottom prices with no regard for a distributor. That is making it not worth the time or effort to get the bars to you, they want to sell bulk, not one's-two's...... worst thing I got was that they don't really care about the end user of the bar sales in general and it is not the primary means of there business.

After some serious discussions, maybe they will change.... maybe not. I used current info to advise them taking into account desired bar sizes, mounting styles you guys like and want, pricing, availability I'd like to see for various saws... we can hope it didn't fall on deaf ears.

Small size bar info;
Offered plenty of advise and even gave several solutions without any resolution and they are reluctant to move. I'm reminded that they are the sole importer and that they can set the prices where they deem they can, order the quantity they want to carry and the mounting styles they think you want. The real problem is that nobody on their staff is a real user and that they have chosen to listen to a relatively small group of users that don't have much experience. Those users were a few people calling to order bars directly from them and were of a very narrow opinion. Basically saying "I don't care about other stuff, just the bars I want"... and this has killed the market for small mount Husky bars and small size Stihl. so much so, HEV is dropping the line entirely!

Lastly; The problem with the 24" bar is a part that helps make the bar slot is broken, and may take considerable time to fix. They can't and won't give a date as to when, I just get a "probably" some time after the new year. I'm not sure why they are so reluctant to hold the manufacturer to a delivery date, especially since they are the only importer to the US. Maybe because sales are slow, demand is down because they have failed to advertise correctly and feel that carrying the line is actually not that profitable to them. Having spoken with the Total Bar people (Tilton Inc. is the only importer of these), they don't carry the reduced weight bar or small Husky mount in the US either, both companies are probably of the same mindset and that truly is a shame for us... the end user!

This is very realistic to the aftermarket cylinder market as well... no demand for a better product, no real time feedback received and the feedback received was based on limited experience. One guy tried, wasn't heard from by the right guy and eventually gave up... the received info was misinterpreted and the company went the wrong direction causing a degraded supply or quality of the produce and eventually they dropped the line due to lack of interest.

Not what you wanted to hear, but the truth is the real answer we desire even when it hurts! Sorry it hasn't worked out better for all of us. I give you my word to not stop trying to improve relations between them and us, the approach I believe works best... honesty!

That said, I apologize for taking this long to get this figured out as it's been a month give or take a few days. I'll be refunding everybody who ordered a 24" large mount Husky bar in .050 gauge size. I've done everything I think is possible to help them overcome the back-order on the 24" Husky large mount bars and trying to get access to the smaller length bars.

Henry, the .058 24" you ordered is in.

One more time;
I've held all the orders with a 24" .050GA Husky bar because of the back order.... Refunds for the price of the 24" Husky bar will be sent to you email/PayPal and any other bars you ordered will be shipped in the next couple days. Sorry if this has caused a problem. If you ordered a 24" Husky bar singly, your bar price and shipping will be refunded.

Let me get these refunds done and the bars that are here out first before taking orders for anything more SugiHara bar wise.... please. Be glad to discuss further the issues stated above.

One option that I'm exploring....
I can get a Stihl mount 24" bar in .050 if you'd like that one instead and use the spacers. I believe this will work as I put a 32" Stihl bar on a Dolmar and the oil holes lined up. Dolmar has the same mounting pattern as the Husky, worked fine. If you'd like the Stihl mount 24" .050 GA bar instead of the Large Husky 24"... I'll supply the bar spacers with the bar to make them fit. I'm shipping the other bars first, giving refunds for Husky 24" bars and then I'll entertain the 24" Stihl bar in-place of the 24" Husky.

Solid type spacers are back ordered, I gave spring spacers to those who asked. If you ordered a solid type spacer and didn't get spring type to hold you over, tell me now and I'll get them out to you.

Randy

Wow! In the day where customer service is King & being ever opportunistic for increased market share is paramount this is astoundingly counter productive!! Who is their "Huge Hot Market"...that they can take such an ignoramus & calloused attitude such as that?

 

[wyk]

Your work has to be commended. But, bear in mind the work is an anomaly. The order you amassed here is obviously far beyond what they usually encounter. I've also spoken with HEV personally. And I mean personally, I was in Fresno, CA at the time. They just do not have the demand. And since Sugi is used to their market only being mainly japanese, with virtually no manufacturer, if any, using their parts outside of japan as OEM, they can't easily flood the US market with their product the way Total can. Stihl, Husky, et al, order bars for OEM by the thousands. Sugi doesn't see this(yet). What happens after your order is demand will fall right back down. What does HEV then do with their inventory if they do get in a boatload of bars? That's what they are asking. Basically, unless they get large OEM support, the business model likely will not markedly change in the US.

 

[watsonr]

Besides not having a consistent demand, marketing is a downfall for them. I don't think they advertise or use their dealers effectively to push sales. The end result should be the dealer advertises the product, they just push bulk to them. They haven't stumbled into a big dealer to do that and one sale here and there isn't working. I'm hoping to change that!

There is an upside to this.... they are the only reduced weight bar in town beside OEM. Total doesn't import there version of the Tsumura lightweight bar, which has the checkerboard pattern. I've spoken with them as well, no movement because the market is slow.... lets say non-existent because they refuse to try, they carry no Stihl bar longer than 28" and we both know that people would use a 32/36" if they had access to one, just need the right dealer/advertising to make it worth while. Total outright said "NO" to the longer bars and reduced weight...... its advertising, done right, could make a huge change in sales.

I ordered once and am already the largest dealer they have.

 

[mdavlee]

Tsumura that makes the total bars sells to Canada in the lightweight up to 36" Stihl and 37" husky. It's a shame those can't be had in the US easily. I prefer them over Sugihara myself.

 

[sweetjetskier]

I asked about a Sugihara for my Stihl 200, HEV said they do not exist.

So I emailed a video link that shows the bar being used on a 200, as they do exist.

2 weeks later I get a email stating they are available, just not in the US.

One would think with the huge number of 200's out there, HEV would make get those bars in the US market.


My 2 cents

 

[srcarr52]

I'd love to see the milling process then. I can't think of a way to mill the groove economically. I can think of a rather easy way to stamp out laminated bars with the groove, oil holes, etc., already in them.

It's done with a slitting saw in a mill. Final grinding can be done on a CNC machine or by hand in a special grinder. Yes laminate bars are stamped but you can't stamp a solid bar.

Tsumura that makes the total bars sells to Canada in the lightweight up to 36" Stihl and 37" husky. It's a shame those can't be had in the US easily. I prefer them over Sugihara myself.

Too bad the only Husky mount Tsumura light weight bars are in 58 gauge. You just can't have your cake and eat it too.

 

[watsonr]

Tsumura that makes the total bars sells to Canada in the lightweight up to 36" Stihl and 37" husky. It's a shame those can't be had in the US easily. I prefer them over Sugihara myself.

They look pretty cool too!

 

[SawTroll]

......

Too bad the only Husky mount Tsumura light weight bars are in 58 gauge. You just can't have your cake and eat it too.

I like that they are .058....

 

[mdavlee]

Stihl are in .063" so that's fine with me.