Bias truck tires

[philoshop]

If there's no bottom to what you're trying to drive on, you better have wide tires. If there's something underneath to get a bite on, goin' slow with skinny tires will get you there.

I had a Jeep j10 pickup a few years ago, okay 35 years ago, and it wore skinny heavy-lug bias-ply. Chains all around if it got really bad, but there was nothing it wouldn't work through if I was paying attention. High-centered it in a couple of swamps, (no bottom), but it would bore tunnels through snow drifts as long as I went slow and kept the wheels on the bottom.

Pretty sporty ride on dry pavement though. Had a couple of head-dents in the roof and very little sheet metal left on it when I finally sold it to a logger to use as a tractor. Bias-plies were included.

 

[Whitespider]

AIM,
I explained earlier that you drive narrow bias ply differently... slow and easy, keeping them on solid footing all the time. They "dig" in fast, and if ya' let them get up on top, they'll "dig" and leave your axles laying on top, wheels in mid air faster than ya' can blink. They ain't designed nor intended to ride over the top like radials, or even those wide Super Swamper type bias ply. When a wheel starts to slip a bit, the worst thing you can do is give it more power, or even keep going... stop, back up, and start forward again, slow and easy. Let the tires work so the axles, bumper and whatnot push stuff out'a the way instead of pushing the truck up over the top. If ya' get up on top and "dig"' in you're screwed, ya' can't even back out; and ya' should always be able to back out... always. Really, in deep snow or mud I use the low side of the transfer case a lot, it gives me a better feel for the wheels and a bit more control over them (but mine has an auto transmission).

With that said... I don't use my pickup to haul firewood. I can see where driving in on soft ground, then adding a ton of weight, and then trying to drive back out could make for a surprise or two. Still, I'd take traction over flotation anyday. Using flotation you're likely to slip sideways into a tree, take out the box side, and get stuck against the tree. Using traction you might get stuck, but ya' ain't gonna' slide sideways into anything... you'll just be stuck.

I had a Jeep j10 pickup... it wore skinny heavy-lug bias-ply.it would bore tunnels through snow drifts as long as I went slow and kept the wheels on the bottom.

L-O-L
That's a good way to describe it... tunnels‼
Most guys will have doubts until ya' take 'em for a ride... or drive around 'em while they're sittin' on their differentials, wheels hangin' in mid-air.
You're correct though, there is a limit to how deep mud can be... but snow, just bore a tunnel‼ L-O-L
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[AIM]

Well I spose there is simply a geological difference in our terrains. When it's soft and muddy the bottom is usually deeper than your tires are gonna bite. Spidey mentioned limestone. We have what we call river rock. No limestone here. The snow gets deep, the ground under it gets soft and SLICK as hell. You dig through the snow into the mud (even a thin layer of mud) it's so slick you aint movin. Might as well be on ice. Most times though you just sink to your ass.

 

[Whitespider]

Well I spose there is simply a geological difference in our terrains.

Naw, that ain't it at all... my tires will drag the axles right through the mud and muck as long as ya run slow and easy and don't push the axle up over the top. Just like philoshop posted above, YA' HAF'TA RUN SLOW ENOUGH TO KEEP THE TIRES ON THE BOTTOM, and ya' haf'ta pay attention, ya' haf'ta "feel" what those tires are doing (I'm talkin' sometimes it's down to a crawl, and you're backin' up more than you're goin' forward). We get the same greazed-owl-crap here...so greasy and mucky it loads up on your boots and tires several inches thick (not my tires though) and will run as deep as last winter's frost.

It's a totally different style of driving than what you're used to.
Like I said above...
"Most guys will have doubts until ya' take 'em for a ride... or drive around 'em while they're sittin' on their differentials, wheels hangin' in mid-air."
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[Patrick62]

opcorn:opcorn:

That must be a TRS-80 Model II to have 8" floppy's
It sits right next to that amplifier with tubes in it connected to that there elec miracord turntable with that fancy tone arm on it. Bose 501's ?

This is turning into quite a whiz contest.

 

[AIM]

Naw, that ain't it at all... my tires will drag the axles right through the mud and muck as long as ya run slow and easy and don't push the axle up over the top. Just like philoshop posted above, YA' HAF'TA RUN SLOW ENOUGH TO KEEP THE TIRES ON THE BOTTOM, and ya' haf'ta pay attention, ya' haf'ta "feel" what those tires are doing (I'm talkin' sometimes it's down to a crawl, and you're backin' up more than you're goin' forward). We get the same greazed-owl-crap here...so greasy and mucky it loads up on your boots and tires several inches thick (not my tires though) and will run as deep as last winter's frost.

It's a totally different style of driving than what you're used to.
Like I said above...
"Most guys will have doubts until ya' take 'em for a ride... or drive around 'em while they're sittin' on their differentials, wheels hangin' in mid-air."
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Well at this point I'm just gonna call ********. Bias vs radial doesn't cut it. TREAD DESIGN and WIDTH is what makes the diff. An open tread will crawl through better and self clean better than a less than open tread but if the BOTTOM is out of reach your just screwed wether your running bias or radials.

And by the way.. If your backin up more than your going forward your gonna end up where you started instead of where your going...

 

[nathon918]

Naw, that ain't it at all... my tires will drag the axles right through the mud and muck as long as ya run slow and easy and don't push the axle up over the top. Just like philoshop posted above, YA' HAF'TA RUN SLOW ENOUGH TO KEEP THE TIRES ON THE BOTTOM, and ya' haf'ta pay attention, ya' haf'ta "feel" what those tires are doing (I'm talkin' sometimes it's down to a crawl, and you're backin' up more than you're goin' forward). We get the same greazed-owl-crap here...so greasy and mucky it loads up on your boots and tires several inches thick (not my tires though) and will run as deep as last winter's frost.

It's a totally different style of driving than what you're used to.
Like I said above...
"Most guys will have doubts until ya' take 'em for a ride... or drive around 'em while they're sittin' on their differentials, wheels hangin' in mid-air."
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well how about some pics when mud season rolls around?, then you can prove everyone wrong, no washing the mud off them tires either...
got one question though, if youre going so slow and not even slipping at all, how in the hell are you on the bottom? not sure if you realize this or not but bias ply tires ride on top of just as much mud /snow per square inch of tread as a radial or wide tire, unless of course youre bias ply's vaporize anything that touches the tread... yup that must be it.
now im not saying one is better than the other, i just revert back to my original question to you that you never answered on the first page of this thread, "what are you comparing these bias ply tires to" you cant compare youre tread to ANY bias or radial tread just because its classified for the same use like A/T or M/T or any other, the only way you can do a real comparison is with a bias ply and a radial with the SAME tread, SAME truck, etc. ALL conditions must be the same.

i await your obvious answeropcorn:

 

[wareagle5.0]

geeze, i cant believe i read this whole thread and still dont have a clue which tire is better.

 

[AIM]

geeze, i cant believe i read this whole thread and still dont have a clue which tire is better.

Because each tire is better for CERTAIN applications. In my OPINION radials are just an overall better tire. My opinion is 90% radials and 10% bias.

 

[4seasons]

geeze, i cant believe i read this whole thread and still dont have a clue which tire is better.

Then you need to read again. Several post here have pointed out that bias ply is for off road and radial is for on road. Obviously tread design plays a role but the real compromise is narrow vs wide for digging to the bottom or floating on top.

 

[Whitespider]

"Tread" is overrated... "tread" is overrated... "tread" is overrated...

We ain't talking those big, fat, wide , "swamper" type tires that guys stick on their 4×4 toys... we're talkin' tires for workin' trucks. If ya' go back and look at the tires I'm running, the "tread" is nothing more than a couple squiggly lines through the center... intended to give water a place to go so ya' don't hydroplane on the road. When under load or pullin' hard, causing the sidewalls of those types of bias tires to flex, it pulls the center "tread" away from the surface and forces the outer "lugs" down into the surface, that's how they get traction. When not under load, and up to road pressures, those side lugs don't even make contact with with a hard, smooth surface like pavement (or only lightly do). That's why you lower pressures as conditions get nasty... so the sidewalls flex a bit more and force the tire to pull the center "tread" up and use the outer side lugs. Radials maintain, or even increase the contact patch when sidewalls flex, they ride on top and depend on a larger overall contact area allowing you to maintain speed ('cause you're on top). You can't use those wide-open, soft(er) rubber, paddle-like side lugs on a radial intended for running down the paved road... 'cause they're always in contact and would wear out before you got home. (Like I said, we ain't talkin' "Swampers") Radials use "tread" to try and get traction in all conditions, bias only use the smooth "tread" area for running down the road... reserving the side lugs for only when needed. When my truck is sitting on pavement you can slide a quarter under the side lugs... try that with a radial.

Most of the comments I'm reading here comes from "radial" thinking... ya' flat gotta' forget how ya' drive a radial to understand.
Some other comments are coming from what guys remember about those bias street tires from the 50's and 60's... those tires are gone, forget 'em (except for some specialty tires).
The bias tire I'm talkin' about, tires for workin' trucks, are "special purpose" tires, they are designed for maximum traction under the worst conditions and loadings... they ain't designed for your street truck, or for off-road toys so ya' can fly over the rough and wet ground, climb rocks, and "float" over mud puddles... they're specifically designed to get down 'n' dirty, pulling, hauling, and crawling through the muck and slop. They tough, near indestructable... ya' ain't gonna' poke a stick through the sidewall. And if ya' spin 'em, and one of those side lugs hooks something solid... well... you're likely to break something on the truck before ya' hurt the tire. The lugs are self-cleaning because they're on the outer edge and the bottom is rounded, they literally "squirt" the crap out the sides... you can even sometimes see it come squirting out while sitting in the cab... every revolution puts "new" earth in contact with the tire no matter how sloppy, mucky or sticky it may be. They do "cut" to the bottom for that very reason... 'cause they're narrow and force the crap out the sides rather than ride up over the top. But ya' ain't gonna' run 30-40 MPH through crap like ya' do with a radial... you flat haf'ta slow down and "work" through it. But when the crap gets deep, and your radials leave your axles laying on top, wheels spinning in mid-air... these tires will still be digging and dragging the axles and truck through the crap, slowly but surely they catch up to ya', and drive around ya' hung-up azz.

It is flat impossible to make a radial work that way... and no "wide" swamper type can either (bias or not).
Just read the posts from guys in this thread that have actually run those narrow, traction-lug bias tires... they're saying the same thing I am.
Heck, philoshop even described it as boring tunnels through snow drifts.
I've run both types of tires, I still run both types of tires... yet, you guys that have never run the tires I'm talkin' about know more about them than me?? That's just crazy. It ain't just about the "wide" or "narrow", and certainly ain't about the "tread"... it's the whole damn package, it's the difference in how they work as a package. Ya' flat haf'ta forget about how ya' drive a radial before you'll ever catch on.
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[Whitespider]

well how about some pics when mud season rolls around?, then you can prove everyone wrong

Although I enjoy a good argument... err... discussion, I don't feel any need to "prove" anything. (Seriously, in the end, I couldn't care any less if you believe me or not.) If I need to drive through some deep slop, and I have a camera along (and someone to get out and take pictures).. well OK then. But I ain't gonna' go out and look for the muckiest place I can find, and then attempt to drive through it just for the sake of "proof"... that's a fool's errand. I ain't gonna' intentionally abuse equipment and chance losing the bottom just because someone don't believe me... my truck ain't a wheelin' "toy". Even when I need to get to the other side, and I'm confident I can, if there's a route less hazardous I'll take it... that's just common sense. But when there ain't a better choice, when there's only one way... I know I have the traction to get the job done if I keep my wits about me.

Just because ya' can... don't mean ya' should just because ya' can.
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[zogger]

Can't say when the last time I saw a real snow tire was. Years/decades. I also guess I am remembering bias, because I don't recall having radial tires back then.

 

[wareagle5.0]

Then you need to read again. Several post here have pointed out that bias ply is for off road and radial is for on road. Obviously tread design plays a role but the real compromise is narrow vs wide for digging to the bottom or floating on top.

yeah i was kinda joking.it just struck me as funny that there was this much discussion over a topic that can be summed up simply by just reading your post.

 

[les-or-more]

Don't you guys have clay down there spidey? Here there is no such thing as a tire that will self clean, the clay will ball up double ring tire chains on tractors and leave them spinning on greased snot. The soil acts kind of like ice on a pond it floats on top, as long as you don't break the crust you are alright, but break the crust and down to the clay you go. The bottom is always on the clay, the top varies by soil thickness, from an inch to ten feet, we can drive back a field on shallow soil and into a hill, and they don't tunnel so well.
I have ran bias truck tires my uncle swore by them on his power wagon, he eventually got sick of being pulled out and switched to radials.

http://www.off-road.com/trucks-4x4/tech/technical-article-19432.html
The summary of this article says it pretty well.
"Many people swear by one or the other. As with most things, there is not a clear cut superiority of one over another. Interco, for example, makes all three designs to satisfy different needs. Remember that bias ply tires served the industry for many years before the invention of the radial, and the technology has improved them dramatically. On the flip side, radials were invented for a reason."

 

[morewood]

Well heck, I guess I can throw my change out there. There is NOT a tire out there that when it gets slick and the axle drags/pushes along that will help out.....slow or not. There is no cure all, no magical one type of tire/tread/width/height, etc. I like my michelins on the dodge, tons of siping to help with rain, ice, packed snow. I haven't had a slippage yet. If you need to get so far off road to get wood, I'm sorry, but that is what the tractor and Polaris Ranger 6x6 is for. The ranger just don't get stuck unless its dragging its rear. Don't know if those tires are bias or radial. I remember being told once that for every situation there is a solution.....just have to have enough tires to figure it out.

Shea

 

[Whitespider]

Don't you guys have clay down there spidey? Here there is no such thing as a tire that will self clean...

I don't know what your uncle ran, or how he ran 'em, but you can't say that until you try 'em and run 'em right... ya' flat can't.
Of course we have clay... and that's one of those things these tires don't necessarily need to "find bottom", because the clay is the bottom (so to speak). And yes, they will self clean; every time the lug makes contact the "old" clay is forced out the side as the "new" clay presses in... the lugs are always making contact with "new" earth. The lugs themselves will not "load up", they just don't. If ya' keep your head and pay attention, those lugs will act just like the oars of a row boat and "paddle" right on through... if ya' loose your head and spin the tires, your flat screwed‼ (Because ya' ain't giving those lugs time to clean-out and work.) The "stickiest", gooiest, mud I've ever driven in was when I lived in Oklahoma... they called it gumbo... that stuff was like clay on steroids. Still, goin' slow and easy, keepin' your head and payin' attention, you could work your way through... get excited and spin the tires... well... flat screwed‼

There is NOT a tire out there that when it gets slick and the axle drags/pushes along that will help out.....slow or not.

Says another non-believer‼
Sure, there's a limit... but you'd be surprised what that limit is.
You'd be flat surprised how much stuff those axles (and bumpers) can be dragged through as long as ya' keep your head, pay attention, and keep those tires on the bottom.
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[nathon918]

"Tread" is overrated... "tread" is overrated... "tread" is overrated...

if tread is overrated, lets see how well you do when you have none... BTW what youre calling LUGS are actually (part) of the TREAD!
when tires (including bias ply) are re treaded they dont just replace the center section , they replace the entire TREAD which includes youre "LUGS"

 

[Steve NW WI]

I'm gonna quit arguing with Spidey. He keeps talking about it being a "work" truck. He doesn't haul wood with it, has a company vehicle to commute in, and near as I can tell, spends the rest of his time typing out long winded but 99% opinion posts here. That Ford ain't nothing more than yuppie yard art.

 

[MofoG23]

Vinyl recordings do sound better than CD's, the sound is richer, fuller and warmer... and they're making a comeback.
Digital music tends to bite the ear, rather than caress it... believe me, I own hundreds of both.
While sales of CD's fell in 2013, vinyl sales were up 33%.
Here ya' go, read all about it.

http://www.voanews.com/content/vinyl-records-making-a-comeback/1757080.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/10/arts/music/vinyl-records-are-making-a-comeback.html?_r=0
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Not a whole lot to add as I run a tall skinny tire on my firewood rig...older Goodyear MT's (235/85/16 - E rating) and they get the job done when pulling wood from deep in the woods.

I also see some discussion regarding snow tires. If you are driving in some deep snow / snowy / icy conditions, nothing can touch a truly dedicated snow tire - not mud tires with studs. Siping is key as well as overall tread design and compound. I've been running Blizzaks on my personal vehicles for the last decade....to this day they still amaze me when I'm driving on ice or snow covered roads.

I will say your statement above is spot on. Over the last several years, all new music purchased in my house has been vinyl. Finally have a decent deck and would not trade it for any digital media. Next up, a nice tube amp...

The bonus of purchasing "new" vinyl today is that you usually get a free MP3 download for your ipod, PC or smartphone.

ok, back to the regularly scheduled program (topic).