Firewood Processors, Mostlly Overpriced BS

[Mr Good Wood]

They all claims productions rates that never hold true and the prices are all over the map. a 16K one claims 2 cod hr a 60k one claims 3-4 and hr ya know what i mean. Well upon talking to people most never get anywhere the cord per hr claimed by the high dollar ones. yea i know the wood going in matters, but who the heck gets telephone grade logs for firewood? So why don't the mfgs quite trying to bs people? Most machines have the same specs. pumps gpm, cycle time, logs cut size ect. Heck I saw a 30k timber wolf run on mill grade ash logs and it was a joke. Saw cut like crap even with fresh chain and the splitter stuck in the 4 way split a number of times and the wood really needed to be re split again. In my opinion build your own if you can or pay for helpers with the money a new processor cost. Heck the post about the tw6, if you pay that kind of money for a splitter that thing should be go to go, not need a bunch of mods and not able to run the 6 way like they claim without hangup all the time.

Just my thoughts.

 

[woodman6666]

They all claims productions rates that never hold true and the prices are all over the map. a 16K one claims 2 cod hr a 60k one claims 3-4 and hr ya know what i mean. Well upon talking to people most never get anywhere the cord per hr claimed by the high dollar ones. yea i know the wood going in matters, but who the heck gets telephone grade logs for firewood? So why don't the mfgs quite trying to bs people? Most machines have the same specs. pumps gpm, cycle time, logs cut size ect. Heck I saw a 30k timber wolf run on mill grade ash logs and it was a joke. Saw cut like crap even with fresh chain and the splitter stuck in the 4 way split a number of times and the wood really needed to be re split again. In my opinion build your own if you can or pay for helpers with the money a new processor cost. Heck the post about the tw6, if you pay that kind of money for a splitter that thing should be go to go, not need a bunch of mods and not able to run the 6 way like they claim without hangup all the time.

Just my thoughts.

I have owned and operated most of the major brands of processors and yes I can tell you that if you dont give them good straight wood your day will be not very fun and not very productive. But if you give most of them good wood you can get good production numbers the key to all of them is the material going in. You cant polish a turd!
crappy logs make crappy firewood simple as that if you have big ugly crooked wood you would be better off with something other than a processor. I know of an operation that operate a $120k multitek with a circular saw and all they use it for is to cut the logs to length and split in half then they load the blocks and split with a couple hydraulic splitters to finish.

 

[firebrick43]

Remember your economics class! The price of a product has many factors. Firewood processors are very low volume therefore engineering cost a spread out over only a small number of machines, low volume fabrication can cost 4 times that of mass production.
Most small shop owners making these type of machines are not getting filthy rich. You think 60k is high purchase a fixture for a large cnc machine sometime. 50k for a 1.5" steel fixture that will fit into a 3' cube with 3 small hydraulic clamps.

As far as the capability reports, every one quotes ideal rate in nearly any industry. It's not their fault the end customer buys crooked logs, has crappy employees or is working alone, or has a slow/limited/bad support equipment/work site. (I am not saying owners or operators of firewood processors are necessarily wrong in their setup of an operation, it may not make financial sense to have an ideal setup/incoming material)

Father worked for a caterpillar dealer for years in the strip mines. I was with him one time talking to a mine owner about the then new D11 dozers he just had purchased. The mine owner complained about the high price of undercarriage parts(tracks and rollers). Father looked at the numbers and said it looked pretty cheap to him which caused the owner to go into a tirade about how the were 3 times the operating cost of his d7 cats. Dad had to show him that they were moving 1.4 times as many tons of materials per dollar as the 7's and therefore were a good investment but would be more than happy to trade the 11 for a compare able dollar wise number of 7's as he would make even more in parts sales.

 

[Hddnis]

I have a friend who does 600+ cords a year with a crew of immigrant labor, three cheap hydraulic splitters, and a couple of dozen chainsaws. It is a "side business" for him to get rid of all the wood that his tree service generates. Half of that wood is crooked, gnarly, twisted and ugly, so a processor is out of the question for ~50% of his supply. He did some pencil depleting and is now looking for a used processor because the labor savings on the stuff he can run through would pay for a 60k machine in just a couple of years. He asked around and figured a good average production rate was 60-70% of the claims, this is also my experience, so real world numbers are a little less than claimed.



Mr. HE

 

[jcl]

got to due your home work when buying! i went to 2 forestry expos. so i could see then run and work in person i picked the block buster they say one cord a hour if im loading and operating its hour & 15 mins if someone is loading while im cutting it can be 45-50 mins a cord . i buy grapple loads but like woodman said crooked and large knot logs it takes more time. your the one putting up the $$$$ money you got to take the time to make the right choice.

 

[blackdogon57]

Smart processor operators have good log suppliers and take good care of them. It took me a few years to figure out that my built rite needs straight 18-20 foot logs no larger than 16" diameter. I manage over a a cord an hour without breaking a sweat. Don't know too many guys that can do that with a chainsaw and splitter.

 

[muddstopper]

I have been planning a processor build for a few years. Gathering parts as I find them. I have ran a few small processors and watched several other being ran. With all that looking I have came upon a few conclusions.

• Most processors, (the $15000 range) have saws that have limited power.
• Most Expensive processors also have limited saw power. Duh! My thoughts are that most of the manufactors build their saws using slightly modified off the shelf hydraulic gear motors and over flow the hydraulic oil to get them to cut. Its a compromise at best
• Most splitter valves, including the autocycle valves, are limited to 25gpm of oil flow, which limits speed
• Most processors are limited to under 24in dia logs.
• Circular saw processor require tons of hydraulic power just to run the saw and the saw is very limited to the dia of round it can cut
• Large rounds will require resplits if only a 4 way or 6 way wedge is used. A 24in dia log split 4 or 6 ways will still yield splits of 12in out of a 24in log.
• Most processors dont have the required splitting power to do multiple (more than 4way) splits in less than ideal wood.
• Due to knots and crooks, belted conveyor feeds will often slip
• top rollers and and bed rollers will handle crooked knarly logs better than belts or chains

My personal build will also have it own compromises due to budget restraints.

• I plan a 27in cutting dia using a hydraulic chainsaw of my own design. It too will be a hydraulic gear motor but of adequate size to handle large volumes of oil to produce lots of torque and hp. Saw should be around 29hp and 35ftlbs of toqure and run the .404 chain at 3888ftm. For comparison a 3120 husky runs 8.5hp at 5.6ftlbs of torque and 66fts, or 3957ftm. 3 times the hp and 6 times the torque, saw should be more than adequate. I worry more about chain break than the saw not cutting.
• I plan on using a 12way hydraulic adjustable wedge to reduce number of resplits required. I will be able to adjust the wedge for a normal 4way split on smaller dia wood.
• Final tonnage will be determined by the size cylinders I am able to source, either twin 4 or twin 5in cylinders.
• I also plan on having a built on knuckle boom for loading logs and to help pass those crooked logs thru the processor
• I already own a 5in bore splitter with adjustable 6way splitter I can use for larger rounds that wont fit thru the processor

Large volume splitters take lots of power and and power cost money. Dont expect 4cords per hour out of a 25-30hp engine driven processor. The relationship between splitting or sawing hp means it takes lots of pressure, or flow to make it work with any speed and speed requires lots of hp to make it run. You can get a lot of tonnage out of a big cylinder and little pump, and a small engine but it wont have speed. You can get a lot of speed out of a lot of flow and low pressure and small engine, but it wont have a lot of power. If you want power and speed, you need a large engine and a big pump and the proper valves to handle the oil flow.

 

[Sandhill Crane]

muddstopper; check out www.danzcoinc.com for info on hydraulic cut-off saws. You may find it interesting.

 

[Preston]

You processor folks must live in a perfect world. No way could I make one work with what I got here.

 

[firebrick43]

You processor folks must live in a perfect world. No way could I make one work with what I got here.

Wow, a southerner finally admitting that the north is a perfect world! What's the world coming to!

I do guess that Yankee ingenuity has a lot to do with processor design!

 

[Preston]

Ask the supporters of obumbler and moochie. They should have the answer. But the word Southerners should be capitalized. You know that.

 

[woodman6666]

I have been planning a processor build for a few years. Gathering parts as I find them. I have ran a few small processors and watched several other being ran. With all that looking I have came upon a few conclusions.

• Most processors, (the $15000 range) have saws that have limited power.
• Most Expensive processors also have limited saw power. Duh! My thoughts are that most of the manufactors build their saws using slightly modified off the shelf hydraulic gear motors and over flow the hydraulic oil to get them to cut. Its a compromise at best
• Most splitter valves, including the autocycle valves, are limited to 25gpm of oil flow, which limits speed
• Most processors are limited to under 24in dia logs.
• Circular saw processor require tons of hydraulic power just to run the saw and the saw is very limited to the dia of round it can cut
• Large rounds will require resplits if only a 4 way or 6 way wedge is used. A 24in dia log split 4 or 6 ways will still yield splits of 12in out of a 24in log.
• Most processors dont have the required splitting power to do multiple (more than 4way) splits in less than ideal wood.
• Due to knots and crooks, belted conveyor feeds will often slip
• top rollers and and bed rollers will handle crooked knarly logs better than belts or chains

My personal build will also have it own compromises due to budget restraints.

• I plan a 27in cutting dia using a hydraulic chainsaw of my own design. It too will be a hydraulic gear motor but of adequate size to handle large volumes of oil to produce lots of torque and hp. Saw should be around 29hp and 35ftlbs of toqure and run the .404 chain at 3888ftm. For comparison a 3120 husky runs 8.5hp at 5.6ftlbs of torque and 66fts, or 3957ftm. 3 times the hp and 6 times the torque, saw should be more than adequate. I worry more about chain break than the saw not cutting.
• I plan on using a 12way hydraulic adjustable wedge to reduce number of resplits required. I will be able to adjust the wedge for a normal 4way split on smaller dia wood.
• Final tonnage will be determined by the size cylinders I am able to source, either twin 4 or twin 5in cylinders.
• I also plan on having a built on knuckle boom for loading logs and to help pass those crooked logs thru the processor
• I already own a 5in bore splitter with adjustable 6way splitter I can use for larger rounds that wont fit thru the processor

Large volume splitters take lots of power and and power cost money. Dont expect 4cords per hour out of a 25-30hp engine driven processor. The relationship between splitting or sawing hp means it takes lots of pressure, or flow to make it work with any speed and speed requires lots of hp to make it run. You can get a lot of tonnage out of a big cylinder and little pump, and a small engine but it wont have speed. You can get a lot of speed out of a lot of flow and low pressure and small engine, but it wont have a lot of power. If you want power and speed, you need a large engine and a big pump and the proper valves to handle the oil flow.

Im not trying to tell you what to do but I would switch right now to 3/4 saw bar and chain I dont think the 404 will ever hold up to what you are talking about Also if your planning on ramming a 27" round through a 12 way wedge and using dual 5" cylinders to do it I would have some serious iron behind the wegde like 1.5" or bigger Again not trying to bash you or your ideas but I have personally processed thousands of cords of wood in my years and have seen many scenarios some work and some dont Good luck with your build

 

[Mr Good Wood]

Yea i realize that the advertised numbers are in a perfect word, but after seeing home made ones that look like a backyard scrap pile through together that out preform a pro built high dollar machine it makes ya scratch yer head. Like i said originally the TW that i saw run had straight nice logs and ran like crap and it was a practically brand new machine.

As for the chain speed I red somewhere that Oregon Harvester Chain is best ran at approximately 6000 ft per min and with 50 lbs of pressure mid bar. Not sure about other brands.

 

[Hddnis]

I'd love to see the backyard scrap pile machines that outperform pro built high dollar ones.

Thing with processors is that there is a huge range of them in style and capability and lots of price points.

You get what you pay for, you either pay in money or time.



Mr. HE

 

[blackdogon57]

Yea i realize that the advertised numbers are in a perfect word, but after seeing home made ones that look like a backyard scrap pile through together that out preform a pro built high dollar machine it makes ya scratch yer head. Like i said originally the TW that i saw run had straight nice logs and ran like crap and it was a practically brand new machine.

As for the chain speed I red somewhere that Oregon Harvester Chain is best ran at approximately 6000 ft per min and with 50 lbs of pressure mid bar. Not sure about other brands.

I switched to Oregon 16H chain a few years ago. Best chain I've ever used. We can often run all day with out switching to a sharp chain. Wish I could use it on a hand held saw !

 

[muddstopper]

muddstopper; check out www.danzcoinc.com for info on hydraulic cut-off saws. You may find it interesting.

I have talked to Danzco on the Phone and read all his papers. Man probably knows a thing or two about firewood processors, but dont expect any free advice.

Im not trying to tell you what to do but I would switch right now to 3/4 saw bar and chain I dont think the .404 will ever hold up to what you are talking about Also if your planning on ramming a 27" round through a 12 way wedge and using dual 5" cylinders to do it I would have some serious iron behind the wegde like 1.5" or bigger Again not trying to bash you or your ideas but I have personally processed thousands of cords of wood in my years and have seen many scenarios some work and some dont Good luck with your build

All good advice and I am listening.

Most factory processors run a .404 bar and chain, altho some of the higher end ones run the 3/4 or a circular. I already have the bar/chain and sprocket so I am going to give it a try, but yea, I worry about breakage. While factory processors might run .404 with success, I dont think many of them are supplying the hp or torque to their saws I am planning. My saw will have guards in place to hopefully catch any possible chain shots.

My backbone for the 12way wedge is 1inx8 plate. It will be secured to the beam as well as have a top support bar to the frame. Actual wedge will slide inside a box frame and also be supported by steel to the processor frame. basicly the wedge will be supported at the bottom, the sides and the top. It will take more than 60tons to break it. If it breaks, I'll just get more metal and crank up the welder. If you think what I have planned wont do the job, say so now before I start cuttiing and welding. I am still hunting parts so its not to late to make changes.

 

[Mr Good Wood]

Kick butt processor, home built. That saw is moving!!! read comments below

 

[Mr Good Wood]

Even better, again home made. Granted you would have to sell a crap ton of wood to justify that rate of production. Again read the comments.

 

[muddstopper]

I have watched those videos before. In fact, I have watched pretty much every Youtube video that has anything to do with wood processors. Each one has its good points and bad. I am trying to take a little bit of the good from all of them and come up with my own design. Of course what I want and what I can afford are two different animals. When the actual cutting and welding starts, I'll post up a few pics. Right now, I am still gathering parts and dont think the actual build will start anytime real soon.

 

[zogger]

I have watched those videos before. In fact, I have watched pretty much every Youtube video that has anything to do with wood processors. Each one has its good points and bad. I am trying to take a little bit of the good from all of them and come up with my own design. Of course what I want and what I can afford are two different animals. When the actual cutting and welding starts, I'll post up a few pics. Right now, I am still gathering parts and dont think the actual build will start anytime real soon.

Biggest problem I see is you can't easily process normal "big" trees. You have the main trunk, maybethree to five feet diameter, then oodles of heavy branches, etc. Ton of waste if you can't process the branches, and only cutting little trees is a waste, they are just starting to put heavy growth on, so why cut them then? Most of these processors the wood has to be straight, perfect or near, not too large diameter, etc.

I am almost thinking it might be better long term to have a machine that can process the whole tree and make pellets or processed bricks/logs. Then everything can be automated once the tree is on the ground and the final product palletized.