Can't afford the synthetic oil.

[GrassGuerilla]

As has been mentioned Echo power blend is an inexpensive, easily available option. It leaves engines looking very clean inside after many hours of run time. I have string trimmers that see commercial use from 2001. Still never even put rings in them. I put a tiny tach on one, it averages 12 hours a week, 25 weeks a year. That's a lot of hours. My saws simply don't see that much run time.

 

[blsnelling]

Two things. Many, if not most, ester based synthetics have additives to counteract their hydroscopic nature. Second, most synthetics burn cleaner than dino oils. That's one of the main reasons to use them.

 

[7sleeper]

A full synthetic will burn cleaner leaving less deposits. lt is also hydro scopic (attracts moisture) which l don't like. I do agree with your advice on a good fd rated synthetic oil for someone who wants a low maintenance motor being that they don't like cleaning plugs, ports and piston crowns however my preference is a semi synthetic which kinda gives you the best of both worlds. Years ago l used to believe exactly as you do.....until l started to understand two cycle oil and how it has evolved over the years. Simply l believe the negatives of full synthetic oil out way the positives.

Two things. Many, if not most, ester based synthetics have additives to counteract their hydroscopic nature. Second, most synthetics burn cleaner than dino oils. That's one of the main reasons to use them.

Well obviously there is some misconception as far as I understood. The difference in burning is neglective between full synthetic and dino. The only difference between smokeless and non smokeless oil is in the additive package! The combustion and burning of the oil is the same. And one of the main improvements to smokeless oil was the reduction of oil amount and precise carburator settings! Since oil is a rather "slow" burner, having too much will result in unburnt oil that will be detectable as black ooze out the rear end, irrespective of synthetic or dino...

And as brad has already mentioned the additive package is quite big in what it contains.

Further I agree totaly with what other members have already mentioned, any hygroscopic tendency is totally irrelevant. In the proper containers (HDPE) there is hardly any exchange with the atmosphere at all. Only during the open period. And the amount of water that could potentially enter would summerize to less than a drop of water!
Just to put it into perspective, one cubic metre (~1 cubic yard) of air contains, in average climates, 2-4 drops of water!!! So the typical paranoia about "ooohhhh water is going to destroy my saw!" sure is embarrising in this context.

7

 

[banana boat]

The only thing synthetic does better is it is more tolerant to higher temperatures, meaning a higher security to moving parts.

7

Your funny
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/synthetics-vs-castor-oil.247815/#post-4586001

 

[7sleeper]

Your funny
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/synthetics-vs-castor-oil.247815/#post-4586001

At least some members have to be



7

 

[banana boat]

Hey!

 

[sachsmo]

Strapped fer cash?

Yamalube 2T is a fine oyl.

 

[pete_86]

I've got some Amsoil Sabre, never would I run it 100:1 again, tried that in a model airplane 50cc engine. I monitored engine temps and I retuned carb for it and it seemed to have slightly scored the cylinder walls and quickly started to build carbon on a low time engine. I agree some synthetics leave carbon more than others. If I trusted Sabre in my saw, I've got a qrt of that. Not really wanting to try, but wonder how it'd do at 32:1?

It's a shame they did away with the Pennz air cooled. At wally about all my local store has is Pennzoil Marine TC-W3 Premium Plus and advance auto has
Havoline TC-W3 2-Cycle Motor Oil. Both about $5.60, not sure if Havoline is synthetic. The Pennz is semi. All the other stuff has to be shipped in. Wally does free store shipping, for those that can plan ahead in time. Where I am bike shops are out of the way and only good choices are wally or parts stores. IDK why autozone doesn't start carrying better oil. Even the Royal Purple is special order. Must be us synthetic guys on here myself included, just aren't the norm and lot of guys run whatever they find. Be kinda nice just to be able to run down the road spur of the moment kind of thing.

 

[7sleeper]

I've got some Amsoil Sabre, never would I run it 100:1 again, tried that in a model airplane 50cc engine. I monitored engine temps and I retuned carb for it and it seemed to have slightly scored the cylinder walls and quickly started to build carbon on a low time engine. I agree some synthetics leave carbon more than others. If I trusted Sabre in my saw, I've got a qrt of that. Not really wanting to try, but wonder how it'd do at 32:1?

It's a shame they did away with the Pennz air cooled. At wally about all my local store has is Pennzoil Marine TC-W3 Premium Plus and advance auto has
Havoline TC-W3 2-Cycle Motor Oil. Both about $5.60, not sure if Havoline is synthetic. The Pennz is semi. All the other stuff has to be shipped in. Wally does free store shipping, for those that can plan ahead in time. Where I am bike shops are out of the way and only good choices are wally or parts stores. IDK why autozone doesn't start carrying better oil. Even the Royal Purple is special order. Must be us synthetic guys on here myself included, just aren't the norm and lot of guys run whatever they find. Be kinda nice just to be able to run down the road spur of the moment kind of thing.

DON'T use a 2 stroke oil made for WATER COOLED engines(TC W3) in a AIR COOLED engine!

7

 

[dolmarfan]

Hello!
What do you think about Makita 2t?Is rated Jaso FD.It is 1/5 the price of Stihl Ultra

 

[7sleeper]

Hello!
What do you think about Makita 2t?Is rated Jaso FD.It is 1/5 the price of Stihl Ultra

As long as it is made for "air cooled engines" everything is ok. My personal preference is:

1. "full synthetice for air cooled engines"
2. fullfills the following norms "JASO FD, API TC, ISO - L - EDG"

With above you are far on the safe side.

7

 

[dolmarfan]

Thanks 7sleeper!

 

[pete_86]

DON'T use a 2 stroke oil made for WATER COOLED engines(TC W3) in a AIR COOLED engine!

7

Just was hoping it'd be like some that are universal for air and water cooled, guess that's not. I had trouble finding specs for it. I recall back in days of flying rc, some guys ran quicksilver from walmart or something like that, maybe that was universal. Ah I hate 2 cycle oil, lol. One reason I bought 4 cycle trimmer, I change the oil with a small bit of synthetic motor oil, maybe 2 oz or so and she's happy with 87 octane all summer long and sips fuel. Quiet, super cheap to run, and gobs of torque for a little motor. Thanks for the reply!

 

[KenJax Tree]

I've got some Amsoil Sabre, never would I run it 100:1 again, tried that in a model airplane 50cc engine. I monitored engine temps and I retuned carb for it and it seemed to have slightly scored the cylinder walls and quickly started to build carbon on a low time engine. I agree some synthetics leave carbon more than others. If I trusted Sabre in my saw, I've got a qrt of that. Not really wanting to try, but wonder how it'd do at 32:1?

It's a shame they did away with the Pennz air cooled. At wally about all my local store has is Pennzoil Marine TC-W3 Premium Plus and advance auto has
Havoline TC-W3 2-Cycle Motor Oil. Both about $5.60, not sure if Havoline is synthetic. The Pennz is semi. All the other stuff has to be shipped in. Wally does free store shipping, for those that can plan ahead in time. Where I am bike shops are out of the way and only good choices are wally or parts stores. IDK why autozone doesn't start carrying better oil. Even the Royal Purple is special order. Must be us synthetic guys on here myself included, just aren't the norm and lot of guys run whatever they find. Be kinda nice just to be able to run down the road spur of the moment kind of thing.

Autozone around here carries Lucas semi-synthetic and thats great oil $9 a quart.

 

[pete_86]

Autozone around here carries Lucas semi-synthetic and thats great oil $9 a quart.

Except my autozone. Haha, I have all the luck. What's nice is that wally and stores like autzone will do free shipping to their store. Just for the times though when you run out or forget to stay supplied wish I had more local options. I don't even live in the sticks. Ah lol. When I'm back on my feet I want to get another milling chain loop so than I'll just order up some of their brand synthetic, make the shipping worth it. Guess that's what you get when you run expensive 2 cycles. Most stores near me just stock your regular non synthetic premix small bottles el chepo stuff. I'm not even that cheap.

Anyone do a teardown on an engine with the Bailys to check carbon buildup? I'm sure there's a thread on here, will have to look it up.

That Echo oil I see my Home Depot has it, turns out to be about $18 a qrt for a semi synthetic. Not too bad if in a pinch. I hope this thread helps others out there that may be cheap like me or not really sure what local options they have for oil. Most common folks would balk at the price some of us pay for oils. That's one thing when doing gasoline rc flying I said I wouldn't do it. Cheaper to run the pennz and buy a new engine when time comes. Course those things were lightly loaded and would last a long time on pennz. Also could find it local, always in stock. Hate it when they get rid of something good.

 

[Andyshine77]

Yamalube is probably the best oil out there for the money. Honestly it's one of the best oils end of story, and at 8 bucks a quart it's hard to beat. Mmaxima Super M or K2 are great choices as well, at a lower price than H1R. In the end the race oils are still less expensive than the OME opinions, especially if you buy in larger quantities.

 

[CR888]

Well obviously there is some misconception as far as I understood. The difference in burning is neglective between full synthetic and dino. The only difference between smokeless and non smokeless oil is in the additive package! The combustion and burning of the oil is the same. And one of the main improvements to smokeless oil was the reduction of oil amount and precise carburator settings! Since oil is a rather "slow" burner, having too much will result in unburnt oil that will be detectable as black ooze out the rear end, irrespective of synthetic or dino...

And as brad has already mentioned the additive package is quite big in what it contains.

Further I agree totaly with what other members have already mentioned, any hygroscopic tendency is totally irrelevant. In the proper containers (HDPE) there is hardly any exchange with the atmosphere at all. Only during the open period. And the amount of water that could potentially enter would summerize to less than a drop of water!
Just to put it into perspective, one cubic metre (~1 cubic yard) of air contains, in average climates, 2-4 drops of water!!! So the typical paranoia about "ooohhhh water is going to destroy my saw!" sure is embarrising in this context.

7

Seasonal motocross/enduro riders have had many complaints from moisture causing problems inside crankcases. In Australia still offers 3 oils...hp(regular dino fb), HP semi synth GD/FD and the expensive full synthetic HP ultra FB/GB. Why sleeper does the fully 100% synthetic only offer an FB rating which is the same as their cheap old dino stuff??? Why is the semi synthetic a FD rated oil???? Why does Belray 100% ester full synthetic HR1 not even put a rating on their oil???? Starting to get the drift yet??? Stop listening to marketing!!

 

[Brushwacker]

I run Champion non synthetic oil (4.49 a quart) for air cooled engines since about 1995 most of the time and a couple years ago I switched from 6 oz 24 to 1 to a gallon to 5oz 28 to 1. Not milling but I get to cutting some big blocks and stumps every year intermittent to moderate tree cutting. No carbon problems or other top end failures but I don't keep on if my saws are not sounding fine tuned. I used some old Stihl 2 stroke oil in white bottles a spell in between and did have a few failures in a short time. I will use old oil for bar oil but not old 2 stroke in a fine engine.
If I were u I would go a little richer then 32 to 1 w/ conventional or 32 to 1 synthetic keeping the carb adjusted a little on the rich side.

 

[Andyshine77]

Seasonal motocross/enduro riders have had many complaints from moisture causing problems inside crankcases. In Australia still offers 3 oils...hp(regular dino fb), HP semi synth GD/FD and the expensive full synthetic HP ultra FB/GB. Why sleeper does the fully 100% synthetic only offer an FB rating which is the same as their cheap old dino stuff??? Why is the semi synthetic a FD rated oil???? Why does Belray 100% ester full synthetic HR1 not even put a rating on their oil???? Starting to get the drift yet??? Stop listening to marketing!!

Easy, no need to get nasty. They're many reasons why some of these oils don't have the higher ratings. In many instances race oils have only an API TC rating, which is a pretty good rating in it's own right FYI. Take onto consideration all of these ratings play a part in advertising.

Most of it has to do with smoke output, which is often do to a higher flame point. A higher flame point is almost always an indication of film strength and higher viscosity's. Oils that meet JASO FD rating often have higher amounts of solvents and dispersants. You see it's a bit of tradeoff. The FD oils may produce a little less smoke and emissions, however they don't come close to the having the same film strength of the ester based racing oil. The JASO FD rating has less to do with lubrication than it does with emissions.

I ppersonally have seen no indications of corrosion or rust running any oil, even on a few cranks sitting in my parts box. Corrosion is not an issue.

WOW back on AS for like two days and already an oil thread, guess I haven't missed much lol.

 

[CR888]

Oil threads are funny. Just out of interest when has anyone experienced an 'oil' related failure??? l mean a failure directly related to oil quality not quantity. l certainly never have and during the life of a saw one could save enough money buying a quality non synthetic oil to probably replace the saw itself. YES there IS some benefits from 100% synthetic oil however the negatives far outway the positives lMO.