Michigan new laws

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I know a guy who burns anything he can put in his boiler, fresh cut green wood, tires, furniture. He gets truck loads from a recycler. Then spreads the ashes with manure so DNR can never pinpoint any pollution.

When I sold my OWB one of the guys picking it up said "Tires are great to burn, I cut them up with my wood splitter and burn pieces with the wood"

If the few who do crap like that weren't so lazy and burned responsibly issues with wood smoke would be less common.

gg
 
I know a guy who burns anything he can put in his boiler, fresh cut green wood, tires, furniture. He gets truck loads from a recycler. Then spreads the ashes with manure so DNR can never pinpoint any pollution.

When I sold my OWB one of the guys picking it up said "Tires are great to burn, I cut them up with my wood splitter and burn pieces with the wood"

If the few who do crap like that weren't so lazy and burned responsibly issues with wood smoke would be less common.

gg

If the scrap yards or whatever would actually pay for old tires, I bet that part of the problem would go away. I know there are some outfits that shred them to reuse the rubber and steel. Having to pay money to dispose of tires when they get new ones, a lot of people don't do it, so they wind up chucked out on the road, burnt, whatever. The ditches around here accumulate them.

Anyway, I don't know anyone in meatspace with an OWB, etc, but if I did, and if they told me they were burning noxious crap like that, I'd have a word with them about it.
 
?

he is trying to free wood burners from EPA regulations.

I voted for him so I'm happy he is not going to try to clamp down more on us wood burners. I do have an EPA stove already (which by the way sucks this week because of brutal cold), but I am not going to put one in my garage since the old one in there works just fine.
 
These last few posts are bringing back memories and I hate to move so far off topic but I must. Real good friends were hog farmers, 30 sows,4 miles from a water way. EPA came in and said they were polluting stream and had to fix situation, however they wouldn't tell them how to fix the issue even after a fine was paid. They ended up spending something like$30 grand and were still not in compliance, so they put the word out to a certain community and sold out the sows and piglets, too tired to fight anymore. I have seen other farmers get away with things on purpose and get nothing. EPA are just @$&&_)::;":)!#=/+.
straight!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Michigan is not the first state to pass such law; Missouri passed similar back in June, and other states have it in the works. The (Federal) EPA can not enforce broad regulation such as this without cooperation from state environmental agencies... the feds simply do not have the funding or manpower. The courts will not, can not, strike-down the Michigan (or Missouri) law that forbids state employees from enforcing certain Federal Regulation... there is no law requiring states to enforce them. The courts won't let Obama have it both ways. Remember?? He used the courts to stop Arizona from enforcing federal immigration law, so now it's impossible for the feds to use the court system to require states to enforce others... it-is-what-it-is.

Think about it, even though marijuana is a federal crime, Colorado state law has legalized it and the feds can't do cold owl squat about it (unless they wanna' send in the FBI to start making federal arrests... which the Colorado courts will toss out anyway). The states are under no obligation to enforce any federal law or regulation... it-is-what-it-is. If Michigan and Missouri choose to ignore the new wood stove regulations there ain't a damn thing the feds can do about it... unless a stove manufacturer in Michigan sends or takes their product into another state for the purpose of retail sale, then it falls under the "interstate commerce" clause of the Federal Constitution. But someone from another state is free to drive into Michigan, purchase a non-compliant stove, and haul it home (unless the home state has a law against bringing such a thing into the state)... but installing it may not be legal because of the EPA regs, if the home state is enforcing them.

The new "proposed" EPA regulations have absolutely nothing to do with burning trash and tires... it's a "sue and settle" scam, nothing more. There's only two ways the EPA can make or change regulations...
  1. To comply with Executive Order from the President. Sometimes that "order" may be initiated by the President alone, other times it may be initiated because Congress has passed an Act requiring the President to accomplish something and he chooses to use the EPA for that purpose.
  2. To settle a law suit if they can show "settling" will cost the tax payer less than fighting the suit.
In October 2013, seven states sued the EPA because the current wood stove regulations did not include wood-fired boilers. Within weeks the EPA had the new "proposed" regulations drafted (really... that fast??). Here's what happened, the EPA makes a deal with seven states... "you sue us, we'll give you regulation (plus a few more our tree-hugger friends want), then you drop the law suit." Of course, the fact that those seven states could have enacted their own laws and regulations is never questioned... 'cause, in reality, it ain't about the environment, it's about the power and money.

So... which seven states??
New York, Connecticut, Maryland, Massachusetts, Oregon, Rhode Island and Vermont.
The rest of us get the royal screwin'.
*
 
If'n y'all are interested in how the whole "sue and settle" scam works, and how it's used to screw us out'a millions (maybe billions) of tax dollars... click on the link below, then click on the 'continue to site' link in the upper right-hand corner.
If'n ya' ain't pizzed-off after reading it... well... then I guess there ain't no hope for ya' :D

http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybe...e-collusion-with-environmental-organizations/
*
 
If'n y'all are interested in how the whole "sue and settle" scam works, and how it's used to screw us out'a millions (maybe billions) of tax dollars... click on the link below, then click on the 'continue to site' link in the upper right-hand corner.
If'n ya' ain't pizzed-off after reading it... well... then I guess there ain't no hope for ya' :D

http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybe...e-collusion-with-environmental-organizations/
*

Well Spidey, I liked your post but sure didn't like what I read at the Forbes site. I remember something about this from a company informational meeting we had last spring and our attorney was bringing us up to speed on the Cap and Trade BS that is coming our way. She mentioned the sue and settle trick but didn't elaborate a lot on it. (I work at the largest municipal utility in Iowa and we have 3 coal fired power generation units on site). These Liberals are going to force their agenda upon us because we don't have enough intelligent people to stay informed and vote against their agenda:confused:...Look at what happen in the House yesterday...:dumb: who would have thought Boehner would have made it back in ....
 
and guess what?? pig manure,,in iowa, is TIGHTLY regulated!!!! the dnr, watches it like a hawk!!! if out of line,,nice fine...guess where the m0oney goes to?? to spend as they see fit!! overseas for a junket!!!

Yeah, manure is big business around here, I have nearly a dozen hog confinements in a mile radius alone.

But, then again, when it is a large city that can't handle sewage from large rains, they dump in river without as much as a chirp. They will warn you on the news to be careful if eating fish out of river but don't get fined a dollar. BULLCHIT is what it is. I know a lot of farmers too, if they have some manure spill into waterways on large rains, or it goes over their DNR approved lagoon, still get fined.

Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of idiot farmers and a lot that try to do their best.
 
If the scrap yards or whatever would actually pay for old tires, I bet that part of the problem would go away. I know there are some outfits that shred them to reuse the rubber and steel. Having to pay money to dispose of tires when they get new ones, a lot of people don't do it, so they wind up chucked out on the road, burnt, whatever. The ditches around here accumulate them.

Anyway, I don't know anyone in meatspace with an OWB, etc, but if I did, and if they told me they were burning noxious crap like that, I'd have a word with them about it.
I have seen chunks of tires burned in a outdoor gassifier whithout smoke. Not sure about polution just amazed not to see any clouds of black smoke.
 
Boehner is a boner... but... heck man, what did you expect... nobody with any common sense would want that job.
*
That maybe so. The guy trying to drum up the most opposition against him, Louie Gohmert from Texas, I feel has a lot of common sense and is a Patriot. A true Constitutionalist. I've watched a lot of his speeches on C-Span and I think he is genuine. Of course that is probably the best reason they couldn't get 26 Republican votes to force the 2nd ballot;). A that point the moderate Republicans and the Democrats would start to lose control. Oh well, probably too late to try and stop the inevitable anyway. One of the reasons I cut wood, get away from all the madness and enjoy the outdoors.:D You can't hear all the screaming and fighting over the 288xp!
 
and guess what?? pig manure,,in iowa, is TIGHTLY regulated!!!! the dnr, watches it like a hawk!!! if out of line,,nice fine...guess where the m0oney goes to?? to spend as they see fit!! overseas for a junket!!!

I have found that most of the time the monies generated by government agencies goes into the till to make themselves bigger. This allows them to get more power and look for new ways to generate even more revenue. Reminds me of cancer in SO many ways.

When I installed my heating system local county made me get a Hydraulic permit. This was because of the pex tubing in concrete. They wanted me to put 50PSI on the system and it had to hold pressure for 20 minutes. Fought with them that was over the suggested pressure and had to get manufacturer to verify. When the "inspector" came I had it under pressure with the gauge there. Guy looked at it and talked on his phone. After 5 minutes he said okay, that is fine and signed off. I could have had a fixed gauge with no pressure and it is obvious it is just about the fees. I had close to $2000 in inspection fees and that is nothing compared to what Florida and CA do to people.

Our county actually paid certain individuals "finders fees" for people building or doing projects without getting the permits.

I have seen some peoples work so I understand why some regs are needed but things have gotten WAY out of hand.

One of the best ones I know of is what my Dad did. He built houses all his life and ended up teaching carpentry at the local vocational school. Each class would build an actual house every year.

Inspector came to do his thing and was looking at the stairs. All of a sudden he asked for all the students to gather around. He then said, "Guys, this is why inspectors are needed. These stairs are out of spec." Took his tape out and showed them. Then said, "The tread and rise are out of proportion by 3/4" on this whole staircase and things like this should not be let go."

Dad then said, " Class, this is why you always need to be present when an inspector comes. As you all know, we put down 3/4" plywood scraps to save wear and tear on these steps during the construction process. Being here saves more wasted time and taxpayers money because not all inspectors realize what they are looking at."

Dad is normally quite but since the guy wanted to make a show out of it, he played along with him. Inspector was quick to leave after that one.
 
Muscatine??
By-the-way... love the ketchup.
*
Yes sir, Born and raised here on a farm. Turning wrenches for the past 35 years. 31 of them here for this employer. Good people. :) And yes I do have a preference for the ketchup, I like the original formula, sugar only , no HFCS. :rock:
 
I have found that most of the time the monies generated by government agencies goes into the till to make themselves bigger. This allows them to get more power and look for new ways to generate even more revenue. Reminds me of cancer in SO many ways.

When I installed my heating system local county made me get a Hydraulic permit. This was because of the pex tubing in concrete. They wanted me to put 50PSI on the system and it had to hold pressure for 20 minutes. Fought with them that was over the suggested pressure and had to get manufacturer to verify. When the "inspector" came I had it under pressure with the gauge there. Guy looked at it and talked on his phone. After 5 minutes he said okay, that is fine and signed off. I could have had a fixed gauge with no pressure and it is obvious it is just about the fees. I had close to $2000 in inspection fees and that is nothing compared to what Florida and CA do to people.

Our county actually paid certain individuals "finders fees" for people building or doing projects without getting the permits.

I have seen some peoples work so I understand why some regs are needed but things have gotten WAY out of hand.

One of the best ones I know of is what my Dad did. He built houses all his life and ended up teaching carpentry at the local vocational school. Each class would build an actual house every year.

Inspector came to do his thing and was looking at the stairs. All of a sudden he asked for all the students to gather around. He then said, "Guys, this is why inspectors are needed. These stairs are out of spec." Took his tape out and showed them. Then said, "The tread and rise are out of proportion by 3/4" on this whole staircase and things like this should not be let go."

Dad then said, " Class, this is why you always need to be present when an inspector comes. As you all know, we put down 3/4" plywood scraps to save wear and tear on these steps during the construction process. Being here saves more wasted time and taxpayers money because not all inspectors realize what they are looking at."

Dad is normally quite but since the guy wanted to make a show out of it, he played along with him. Inspector was quick to leave after that one.
put it right to that pile, didn't he??? love it..toooo many gov filth,,are just keeping their phony job, like you said....then we get to pay their exhorbident retirement, and benes.........
 
Yeah, manure is big business around here, I have nearly a dozen hog confinements in a mile radius alone.

But, then again, when it is a large city that can't handle sewage from large rains, they dump in river without as much as a chirp. They will warn you on the news to be careful if eating fish out of river but don't get fined a dollar. BULLCHIT is what it is. I know a lot of farmers too, if they have some manure spill into waterways on large rains, or it goes over their DNR approved lagoon, still get fined.

Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of idiot farmers and a lot that try to do their best.
straight!!!!!!!!! :clap::clap:
 
It's becoming a problem here in NZ too. Parasitic bureaucracy supposedly to save us from our selves when too many of these govt departments are staffed by self-righteous, empire building, hypocritical revenue gatherers. We actually had the most absurd situation recently where a farmer was hammered with fines for actually PLANTING Native Trees:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/64407456/treeplanting-farmer-bas-nelis-cops-huge-fine

The world has gone batshit crazy, and unfortunately we only have ourselves to blame for allowing it.

Then we have safety inspectors determined to protect and grow their empires by dreaming all manner of safety accords and shoving them down the throats of anyone they feel has the money to pay the fines needed t keep building their officious empires. All in the name of safety. A farmer here got fines something like $40K for not wearing a helmet when riding his quad bike on his farm (not public roads). Yet, if it was all about safety and not fines, why is is it legal for recreational users of quads to ride without helmets?

If we remove the need for common sense from the equation, then of course we are going to breed generations of fumb ducks who haven't a clue how to think for themselves. More sheeple for various govt agencies to fleece. More people who have SFA situational awareness, who can't see a risk until it bites them in the arse unless a textbook draws it for them from every single angle.
 
A group of us took our own council (the govt threw out the democratically elected ratbags and appointed their own puppets to run our district) to court. In response, the govt decided to change the law (and make it retrospective) even while our case was sub judice, to avoid getting their nuts roasted.

We can have any colour of unilateral dictatorship Kim Jong Un would be proud of here in NZ, as long as it is coloured democratic to hide what lies beneath the surface.
 

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