Wood splitter done for now....have bugs to work out

[ziggo_2]

Well i finally got the hydraulic hoses made for my wood splitter. Got it all together and it looks like my brand new prince valve is cracked under the outlet port. I thought id at least split some to say i did, it didnt seem to have the power it should, wouldnt split a log about 16inches in diameter. The wood was either ash or elm, not sure, the bark fell off. Even if it was elm, ive split it before and I would think it shouldve split it. Just had it at idle and it almost killed the motor so i brought it too half throttle and it broke the welds on my foot piece but didnt split the wood. Im wondering if i need to adjust the pressure of the pump??

Splitter specs:

old 16 hp kohler motor. kohler k341s
pump: is barnes 28gpm
valve is prince two way detent.
5x30 in prince cylinder
3/4 hoses and fitings.

any advice on it would be helpful...ill have to get ahold of a bigger welder to fix my foot piece.
Thanks

 

[robson1015]

May have over tightened the fitting and cracked the valve. It's easy to do. Is that valve connected to the correct ports on the cylinder??

 

[Marshy]

Your going to need a larger bead of weld to hold that foot in place if all you did was spot weld it where the beam flange meets the vertical edge of the foot. It hard to see what exactly you welded but you should consider a stitch weld the length of the foot on te top and bottom of the beam flange.

 

[ziggo_2]

Your going to need a larger bead of weld to hold that foot in place if all you did was spot weld it where the beam flange meets the vertical edge of the foot. It hard to see what exactly you welded but you should consider a stitch weld the length of the foot on te top and bottom of the beam flange.

the beam of the splitter is two i beams welded together side by side and the foot is made the same way....the foot is welded all over, anywhere i could get a stick into. 3 passes in some areas. My old welder must not be getting enough penetration... Thats the least of my worrys. Ill take it into work and re weld it with their mig. im actually a bit surprised it broke all the welds i put on it. i probly use a few pounds of rods just welding that foot on.

My concern is why it wouldnt split the log i had on it.

What im wondering is if i need to adjust a relief valve or if the two way detent is my problem?

 

[Patrick62]

I tend to like the wedge at the other end of the beam, and the push on the cylinder, but to each his own.
I rather think that a stick welder will have more penetration than a MIG. Atleast mine would!
I have welded these things up from scratch like you did, and the structural stuff is usually done with 7018, nobody has managed to push one off since I switched to that rod.

 

[ziggo_2]

I tend to like the wedge at the other end of the beam, and the push on the cylinder, but to each his own.
I rather think that a stick welder will have more penetration than a MIG. Atleast mine would!
I have welded these things up from scratch like you did, and the structural stuff is usually done with 7018, nobody has managed to push one off since I switched to that rod.

Ive use splitters of both types. i find when handling the "BIG" ones, wedge on ram is what i like. Depending on how things go i may switch it around, cause there are benifits to each type.

my welder is a old foreny. i used 6011 on it im sure and for some odd reason i can only use that rod on 115 amps. it absolutely will not lay a bead on any other amp setting.

So, i just got done cleaning it up and re-welding it with 6013, which i can use at 135-145 amps (cant really tell, the label is wore off). I tested it out and it broke the slide rail off the wedge, which is where i thought it would break in the first place. i need to come up with a better way to attach the wedge to the beam.

ive tried lots of rods, including 7018....This welder for some reason is very picky about what rods and how many amps. 7018 will not work at all! cant even get it started!

Maybe a new welder would solve my issues. Lol! any donations?? Lol!

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

What does your weld prep look like? I don't see any areas that were welded that really looked like it got cleaned?

Without a pressure gauge it's just a guessing game on what's going on. Pump relief could be setup wrong, though if it's a new pump it should have paperwork with all the info.

 

[ziggo_2]

What does your weld prep look like? I don't see any areas that were welded that really looked like it got cleaned?

Without a pressure gauge it's just a guessing game on what's going on. Pump relief could be setup wrong, though if it's a new pump it should have paperwork with all the info.

Yea its been a long project. most my prep and welds that i didnt paint right away, have a protective coating of rust by now. But, when i prep i grind the rust off. if its really thick metal, ill bevel the edges. Im no great welder but i know enough to get me by just fine...usually.

Doubt i have the paperwork with the pump anymore.

Where should i put the gauge? inlet of valve? outlet of pump? T it in, i assume?

 

[blades]

If you are not preheating the are you are getting cold welds (crystallized) -hence the reason for breaking them. Doesn't matter if stick or Mig you have a lot of steel there and the heat of the weld is being dissipated. It is also the reason for lack of penetration and why your unit seems fussy. The other thing to look at is your power leads and source, too small and you are choking the machine and are not really achieving the amperage you are setting to. I am not a master welder but been around long enough to know some of the ins and outs.

 

[buzz sawyer]

28gpm sounds high to me for a log splitter pump - maybe too much for that motor? Is it two stage? Is the motor really giving you 16hp?

 

[Kevin in Ohio]

For a pressure guage I'd suggest doing it like this.

This way it is easy to test in different areas. Some want to leave it on but to me it's just something to get broke off and not really needed all the time. Do make sure to get a liquid filled gauge as the quick movement can kill normal needles without it.

On welding you simply aren't getting enough penetration. The amps you say you used are pretty light. Stick welders normally do get better penetration, especially if you are talking a 110 volt MIG. I built my splitter using a 220 volt MIG and V grooved the heavy stuff with several passes. I never pre heated anything and honestly never have. The first pass pre heats enough for me and I do not have a problem with breakage.

6011 is a what I call a dirty rod. Most use it for hard penetration on dirty metal. I grind clean everything and always just used 6013. Have use 7014 but don't notice a difference. 6013 is just a better all around rod for me, others will argue.

Do you know whether your pump is kicking into the second stage? Pulling the motor down is a sign that it is not. You should be able to notice the ram kick down and the motor kind of speed up a little. I'm running a 28 gpm pump on mine with a 5 inch Prince cylinder. It doesn't give up on much of anything. and motor doesn't even begin to slow. Motor is a 25 horse though. 16 is a little light for a 28 GPM but I would think it should do it.

The gauge will show you what is going on and narrow it down for you.

 

[blades]

beautiful welds Kevin

 

[jags]

As other stated, the only real way to know system pressure is with a pressure gauge. You can do like Kevin suggested or you could put the "T" at the input to the hydro cylinder (push side).

A properly running 16hp should pull the 28 GPM pump. Theoretically it only needs 14HP for rated pressure, but again - pressure will make a difference (another plea to get a gauge in the system ).

I like 6011, but not for this kind of application. 6013 or 7014 would be my goto (others may disagree). 7018 is a low hydrogen rod and not needed for mild steel applications (hardened wedge - different story).

ETA: Breaking welds are no joke. You don't want that thing under pressure and spitting parts at you. Unless you have access to a pretty large Mig - stay with a stick welder. Maybe a different one than yours, but a decent stick will lay all the bead you need.

 

[ziggo_2]

Kevin, im questioning weather its kicking down into the second stage myself. it acts like its not.

Im pretty confident the old kohler is plenty of motor. Its a old cast iron motor. must weigh over a hundred pounds, i dont like picking it up. Lots of rotational mass there. Theres a huge differance between a 16hp 30years ago and a 16hp of today

Ill have to get a gauge and fittings and see whats going on.

Im around certified welders everyday at work....never see any of them pre-heat their metal...then again they have top of the line welders. Im sure im just not getting enough penetration. I rewelded it with 6013 rod and im guessing 145 amp setting and i think its good.

I think a new welder would help alot, mig or arc, it dont matter to me. Any excuse to by more tools, right? Lol

It may be a week before i get to play with it some more. Thanks all for the help so far!

 

[blades]

I don't mind pros who don't pre heat, it's part of what keeps my doors open

 

[ziggo_2]

Got it all welded back up and got the log split that was causing problems. turns out it was a pretty knotty piece of elm thats been dead for a long time.

Still havent got the gauge on. have to order parts. I really cant tell if its shifting in to 2nd stage, there is no definite change in sound. I can only hear the motor slow down and then i can stall the ram, just the ram not the motor.

I can definitely tell when the metal gets hot that it does weld better. My problem is that i dont have a torch. I really should get one.

Thinking bout getting the Lincoln "tombstone" AC arc welder when funds allow. But would also like a big mig welder too.

I was checking out craigslist for welders, mostly miller welders... Im not really into buying used tools.

Would you buy a used miller or other comparable Mig welder??

 

[blades]

The new welders- inverter style are more efficient, smaller packages but $$$$, My old Miller dial arc 250 covers everything stick tig and with the Ready welderII gun MIG as well, ac, dc+ & dc- all in one package- downside is it weighs in at some 600+ pounds. Then I have an antique Lincoln what most use to call the Torpedo as the horizontal model looks like one although mine is vertical 300+ amps of mean stick stinger. It is my go to rig most of the time when I need to put heavy members together. With either of these old school units I never have a problem of duty cycle times which you have to pay attention to on the buzz boxes. Nice thing about the newer buzz boxes you can run some of them off 30amp 110vAC lines or 220v AC and have a decent amp range + variable voltage on some up scale models. Like chains saws- dealer makes or breaks. Lincoln and Miller are well supported - off brands take your chances.
For got to say lincoln was $80 auction ( 220v- 3 phase input), Miller was $600 with cables and dolly(220v- 1 phase) off CL number of years ago.

 

[bayard]

more amps will fix most welding issue. i have a miller 250 mig, with a spool gun..045 wire will melt half inch steel plate. the splitter i made has a honda 13hp and a 22gal pump. 60 to 70 % throttle will split all you can throw at it.

 

[olympyk_999]

Then I have an antique Lincoln what most use to call the Torpedo as the horizontal model looks like one although mine is vertical

ive got one of these at work, its a 250 amp machine though...it burns rod real nice...once you get it set, as all the numbers are well worn off...i dont use it very often because we have new-er miller machines, but everytime i use it i always mean to mark the dial for material thickness so i get a general idea for amperage settings...but i always forget

 

[olympyk_999]

more amps will fix most welding issue

umm....sure