Grams of particulate for no smoke Burning

[Adirondack]

I was wondering how many grams of particulate Can be produced and see absolutely no smoke in the chimney? I've search the Internet and I cannot find any information on the subject. Does anyone know of a site which discusses Visual density of smoke and particulate produced? Thanks in advance

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

No idea, though my Blaze King doesn't really make visable smoke with the cat engaged.

My next door neighbor didn't even realize I heated with wood until he came in tge house one day after a few years of him living

 

[Capetown]

I use a Dunsley Yorkshire Wood-burning Boiler Stove. Note the graph about PM emissions. http://www.dunsleyheat.co.uk/yorkshire stove tech.html

 

[Marshy]

Nice looking stove and design but I think the chart isn't completely accurate. All cat stoves ive looked at on the market are exceeding the listed emissions of the cat stoves in the chart and even the amount of York Shire stove. I liked the design though, no air tubes that burn out and require replacing.
To the OPs question, I'm not aware of any correlation between visual density and particulate. Doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Send your question to member BKVP. He might have an answer for you.

 

[Adirondack]

Thanks everyone. The reason I'm asking is my stove it's an older stove but it burns with no smoke. I have the chimney liner insulated and it has an older re-burn system but very effective. I was just wondering because it has no smoke how efficient it was because there's no smoke produced. This is a YouTube of my stove describing the Re-burn system.

 

[Adirondack]

I use a Dunsley Yorkshire Wood-burning Boiler Stove. Note the graph about PM emissions. http://www.dunsleyheat.co.uk/yorkshire stove tech.html

So 7.5 g is the maximum amount of particulate and still have no smoke in the chimney,is that correct?

 

[Capetown]

Hi Adirondack, excellent question, but I'm afraid I don't know the answer! The background to the limit is that in the UK during the 1950s and 1960s many thousands of people died due to exposure to impurities in coal that was being burnt in many houses. Especially during the winter months with high pressure weather situations, (foggy days) the smoke was kept close to the ground by "inversions". It was termed as "smog". Reacting to this the UK government empowered local authorities to declare "smoke-free zones". Only approved fuel and appliances were allowed to be used. This lead to a great reduction in associated illnesses. I think the government set a test for any stove and fuel which would have to pass if it was to be legally used in a "smoke control area". I guess it's an arbitrary figure, but it must be hugely less polluting than what was going on before!

So 7.5 g is the maximum amount of particulate and still have no smoke in the chimney,is that correct?

 

[sam-tip]

There is no direct relation in particulate matter and opacity. Also depends if your looking for filterable and condensate particulate mater. But if you see opacity your pm will be higher. Once you can't see smoke all bets are off on linearity.

Currently testing an industrial bacon smoker. Getting sick of the smell of bacon smoke.

I have been a industrial smoke stack tester for 25 years.

 

[Adirondack]

There is no direct relation in particulate matter and opacity. Also depends if your looking for filterable and condensate particulate mater. But if you see opacity your pm will be higher. Once you can't see smoke all bets are off on linearity.

Currently testing a bacon smoker this week. Getting sick of the smell of bacon smoke.

I been smoke stack tester for 25 years.

Thank you. So basically if the smoke is completely clear there is no range of grams per hour of particulate that I could assume? In other words if I have a completely clear gas escaping I cannot assume it has to be below a certain number? And without a very expensive tester I could not figure out how efficient my stove is. How would I find someone in my area that would be able to test my unit?

 

[Marshy]

Thank you. So basically if the smoke is completely clear there is no range of grams per hour of particulate that I could assume? In other words if I have a completely clear gas escaping I cannot assume it has to be below a certain number? And without a very expensive tester I could not figure out how efficient my stove is. How would I find someone in my area that would be able to test my unit?

I would imagine that it would cost you a lot of money to test your stove. I don't believe its very common for people to test and therefore you probably wont find anyone, short of a university, willing to give it a try. If you really want to pursue it then I would contact a stove manufacture and ask them to share info on the laboratory they use to qualify their stoves. Even then I imagine you would have to ship your stove to them and it would take several weeks or longer.

What is the purpose of your questions?
Is your stove currently certified, pre-EPA, or are you looking to test a home made stove?

 

[sam-tip]

Thank you. So basically if the smoke is completely clear there is no range of grams per hour of particulate that I could assume? In other words if I have a completely clear gas escaping I cannot assume it has to be below a certain number? And without a very expensive tester I could not figure out how efficient my stove is. How would I find someone in my area that would be able to test my unit?

No. The problem is the human eye can only see down to 5% opacity. If you see any smoke it is considered 5% or greater. A laser can see lower but still not good enough to form a relationship to mass emissions.

 

[Adirondack]

I would imagine that it would cost you a lot of money to test your stove. I don't believe its very common for people to test and therefore you probably wont find anyone, short of a university, willing to give it a try. If you really want to pursue it then I would contact a stove manufacture and ask them to share info on the laboratory they use to qualify their stoves. Even then I imagine you would have to ship your stove to them and it would take several weeks or longer.

What is the purpose of your questions?
Is your stove currently certified, pre-EPA, or are you looking to test a home made stove?

Purpose of the question: I hear a lot about a stove with no smoke having less particulates. I have an older stove that does not produce smoke. Defiance masters choice. It has a re-burn system as described in the video above but I wondered how close it is to a modern stove as far as emissions. The stove was certified by PF S corporation Madison Wisconsin to meet or exceed U.L. 737, U. L. 1482 And meet or exceed ICBO research committee acceptance criteria for metal fireplace heat exchangers. Does this mean anything out there to anyone?

Thanks again for all the help it is most appreciated.

 

[sam-tip]

A stove with no smoke is better than one with smoke. Pretty simple but opacity is a quick easy way for regulators to do enforcement. If the regulator sees smoke from an exhaust the regulator can do some kind of enforcement. To be certified to read opacity you must pass a smoke reading test every 6 months. They set up a smoke stack and make smoke and you compare your readings to a laser meter. Its a good excuse to get out of the office every 6 months for most people.

 

[Marshy]

Purpose of the question: I hear a lot about a stove with no smoke having less particulates. I have an older stove that does not produce smoke. Defiance masters choice. It has a re-burn system as described in the video above but I wondered how close it is to a modern stove as far as emissions. The stove was certified by PF S corporation Madison Wisconsin to meet or exceed U.L. 737, U. L. 1482 And meet or exceed ICBO research committee acceptance criteria for metal fireplace heat exchangers. Does this mean anything out there to anyone?

Thanks again for all the help it is most appreciated.

Doesn't mean a damn thing to me without looking that stuff up. Feel free and report back with what you learn, I'm interested.

 

[Adirondack]

Doesn't mean a damn thing to me without looking that stuff up. Feel free and report back with what you learn, I'm interested.

I looked up those listings online and there is nothing specific as to how they were rated as far as emissions. I was kind of disappointed but that's all I found

 

[blades]

Brass tacks- what the epa comes up with is sometimes a figment of their daydreams. Plenty of good stoves/Mfg went by the way side because of the cost of testing to be certified. Doesn't mean they were smoke dragons or in-efficient. I have one at home from the 90's reburn unit not unlike the NC13 for size and function. Mfg got out of the business ( was a secondary revenue source) rather than dealing with the epa. I actually like its controls much better than current units as you could control both primary and the secondary air inputs and like current units has one or two other intakes for air wash and ? I could get useful heat from it for almost 8 solid hours depending on fuel. All you would see out side after it got up to temp were heat waves off the flue. I have no idea what its particulate emissions might be by epa criteria. The EPA will never give me any type of warm fuzzy feeling if you get my drift. Your unit should be fine unless you have some sort of off the deep end regulations from your local grab-a-mint ( government). Thank goodness we in WI do not have to deal with some of the west coast regs. regarding our stoves ( well not yet anyway).