Every failure has a cause that can be diagnosed. In a two cycle in most cases its as simple as a inspection of the piston after failure. Differant types of failures follow patterns.
Sub Standard Oil
- Thread starter Jonny Quest
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Have'nt fired up the new saw yet but I purchased Stihl 2 cycle oil for her (Will a Husky run on Stihl oil?). Stihl proudly states contains fuel stabilizer, could'nt find that claim for Husky oil.
spacemule
The Peanut Gallery
I'm not going to speak for fish, but I don't think he was claiming that accurate diagnosis can't happen. He was merely pointing to the bias of the people doing the diagnosis and the conflicts of interest and the economic aspects that call into question the validity of such threads as this. So, the question is not whether one can do an accurate diagnosis, but rather, the question is whether the diagnosis presented here are accurate.
spacemule
The Peanut Gallery
You could be right bump_r. The post can be read that way. I'm curious what Fish has to say.
gatkeper1
ArboristSite Guru
I run Motul 600T and Mobil 2T oils in all my 2 stroke today.
In the past (forgive me, before becoming enlightened] I ran Castrol 50:1outboard oil in all my equipment. I never seized an engine. Mind you now this was at a 20:1 mix so that maybe is why they all survived. The equipment at the time called for from 16 to 32:1 ratios so I mixed them all at 20:1 so as to have just one fuel can.
In the past (forgive me, before becoming enlightened] I ran Castrol 50:1outboard oil in all my equipment. I never seized an engine. Mind you now this was at a 20:1 mix so that maybe is why they all survived. The equipment at the time called for from 16 to 32:1 ratios so I mixed them all at 20:1 so as to have just one fuel can.
Fish
Tree Freak
RCA is a term I never used, , and diagnosing a failure is a passion of mine.
In fact, working on this stuff is a passion, as is responding to people's questions on the web, as it is a challenge to take the "subjective" input
from the "customer" or online poster, and correctly diagnose the problem,
it's cause, and it's cure. I do not help that many here, as everyone here already knows it all.
I deal with factory reps, and distributor reps, and customer's daily,
and all have their position and angle on dealing with problems.
Factory tech/engineers think the field tech/mechanics observations or
opinions are crap, so they pay little attention to our thoughts or observations.
I enjoy tearing into a saw or trimmer, and correctly determine the cause of failure, as well as other small engines.
Like an engine that has been run on oil, thrown a rod, the customer then
throws in a quart of oil in after the fact. The customer's input cannot be
trusted, usually, unless I kind of set them up and trap them.
One regional {maybe} failure, that really thwarts the factory/dist techs
because it is so outside their structured mileau, is the "milkjug failure", which I first mentioned on the GWeb, and Walt Galer took it and ran. I actually
had one a month ago, show a factory rep that saw's guts and piston, and
it flips them right out. The plug in this case was totally encased in burnt and
molten plastic over the electrode, the distributor guys never even heard of such a failure.
No i relish the challenge of analyzing failures, I just doubt that many of the posts here are correct on their failure analysis, because I have been
around the block a few times.
Stihl actually devised a kit to entrap customers in the early 90's, because
a saw owner, after he realized he just locked his saw up with straight gas
would dump the tank, go make a fresh batch of oil mix, and then put that in his tank before heading off to the dealer. The test was to be perfomed in
front of the customer, and was nothing really special, just an eyedropper
to take a few drops of gas out of the carb, and pust them on some brown paper, then take a few drops of known mix, and put them beside the other spot, the only thing the test kit accomplished was really pissing them off.
Sorry, just rambling now
Evil Fish
In fact, working on this stuff is a passion, as is responding to people's questions on the web, as it is a challenge to take the "subjective" input
from the "customer" or online poster, and correctly diagnose the problem,
it's cause, and it's cure. I do not help that many here, as everyone here already knows it all.
I deal with factory reps, and distributor reps, and customer's daily,
and all have their position and angle on dealing with problems.
Factory tech/engineers think the field tech/mechanics observations or
opinions are crap, so they pay little attention to our thoughts or observations.
I enjoy tearing into a saw or trimmer, and correctly determine the cause of failure, as well as other small engines.
Like an engine that has been run on oil, thrown a rod, the customer then
throws in a quart of oil in after the fact. The customer's input cannot be
trusted, usually, unless I kind of set them up and trap them.
One regional {maybe} failure, that really thwarts the factory/dist techs
because it is so outside their structured mileau, is the "milkjug failure", which I first mentioned on the GWeb, and Walt Galer took it and ran. I actually
had one a month ago, show a factory rep that saw's guts and piston, and
it flips them right out. The plug in this case was totally encased in burnt and
molten plastic over the electrode, the distributor guys never even heard of such a failure.
No i relish the challenge of analyzing failures, I just doubt that many of the posts here are correct on their failure analysis, because I have been
around the block a few times.
Stihl actually devised a kit to entrap customers in the early 90's, because
a saw owner, after he realized he just locked his saw up with straight gas
would dump the tank, go make a fresh batch of oil mix, and then put that in his tank before heading off to the dealer. The test was to be perfomed in
front of the customer, and was nothing really special, just an eyedropper
to take a few drops of gas out of the carb, and pust them on some brown paper, then take a few drops of known mix, and put them beside the other spot, the only thing the test kit accomplished was really pissing them off.
Sorry, just rambling now
Evil Fish
aggiewoodbutchr
Addicted to ArboristSite
Diesel JD
ArboristSite Guru
Why is TCW-3 not acceptable for air cooled applications....is it because the water cooled engines only make about half as much RPM as an air cooled engine like a chainsaw. I hear some guys here run a chainsaw as fast as 12,500-13,500RPM whereas my highest revving outbaord was 6000-7000RPM? Not arguing...just curious as to what the answer is. I have used TCW-3 in my saws and not blown them up...but now that I know better its always TCW3 in the boats and premium, usuallu Stihl or Echo air cooled mix in my saws and trimmers.
spacemule
The Peanut Gallery
Most marine engines are water cooled and therefore the operating temperatures are much lower than on air cooled engines.
Finnbear
ArboristSite Operative
I work in a different industry-same story though. I work for a bearing and power transmission distributor. Years ago when I worked at the parts counter I'd sell the same guys boat trailer wheel bearings every year in the spring. Like clockwork, on the first warm Saturday of spring they'd come in with a box of nasty greasy parts ?????ing about the "junk" bearings I'd sold them last year. The bearings were always rusty and the grease was nasty and dirty looking. I'd tell them that if they didn't want to come back next spring then they should do the following:
1-let the trailer wheels cool down a bit before backing it into the lake to launch the boat since a hot trailer hub immersed in cold lake water will create a vacuum and suck water in past the seal lip. Water mixed in with grease will eventually cause the bearing to rust and the bearing will fail and probably along the side of the road where it is a ????? to fix, not to mention ruining your weekend of fishing, skiing, etc.
2-buy an extra pair of seals and some extra grease and before you put the boat away for the year in the fall, take an hour, pull the wheels, clean the bearings and hubs, re-pack them with new grease, and put new seals in the hubs-if you let the trailer sit all winter with water in the old grease, the bearings will get rust on them, they will turn rough in the spring, and if you don't notice this before you head down the highway, one of those rough rusty bearings will probably get hot and destroy itself along the interstate where 1000 people will whiz past you at 70 miles an hour laughing at you and saying "sucks to be you today" and maybe ONE of them will stop and offer to help you before the highway patrol stops and calls a wrecker to "help" you. These guys who came back every year couldn't be bothered to listen to a "young punk" like me and I guess they just figured new wheel bearings were just a yearly tradition (an expensive one though). Meanwhile, my Dad's boat went 3 weekends a month all summer long for a 250 mile round trip to the lake to go fishing and to this day still has the same bearings in it. It got new seals every fall and new Lubriplate Marine Grease packed in the bearings but it NEVER got a new set of bearings. This boat was new in 1984.
Lakeside53
Stihl Wrenching
I have one of those Stihl paper kits!! Never used it though.. Maybe it's "collectable"... Hmmm..
windthrown
361 Junkie
I'd rep yah for this one if I could! Yah got some more blanks... Bar oil in the gas... LOL!
I use JASO air-cooled rated oil. Even Stihl does not list standard approval, so I went back to JASO FC rated Castrol blue goo. Echo, Homelite, and several others are JASO approved as well. Yah, Stihl and Husky could get their oil tested for standard, but they don't. JASO stuff can be bought for cheaper though... and with an JASO FC rating, I know what it is. No saws here are scored, gummed up or siezed up. The Oly seems to have a bad coil though.
Fish
Tree Freak
Wow this one almost slipped away.
16:1mix
Addicted to ArboristSite
Fries with that?
LMAO...
Also reminds me of this, a true story told me by a friend who went to work in a small engine service center about 15 years ago: Customer brings in a push mower that "Stopped running when I was mowing" (4 cycle engine). Examination revealed that the engine had seized.
The customer was asked if oil had been added to the crankcase BEFORE starting the engine?
YES.
What kind of oil?
Wesson.
The warranty claim was denied....
Was it canola???
Gary
LMAO...
Also reminds me of this, a true story told me by a friend who went to work in a small engine service center about 15 years ago: Customer brings in a push mower that "Stopped running when I was mowing" (4 cycle engine). Examination revealed that the engine had seized.
The customer was asked if oil had been added to the crankcase BEFORE starting the engine?
YES.
What kind of oil?
Wesson.
The warranty claim was denied....
