PE Summit or BK King?

[Rangerbait]

Need advice...getting ready to yank my gas fireplace and build a hearth/have a standalone wood stove installed.

The current fireplace is in a 2' bump out that extends the entire 9' of the main floor of my 2 story + finished basement house.

I am opening bump out to create an 8' alcove, that will be finished with masonry work to establish the required R value. Currently, the bump out has a little roof that's even with the bottom of the second floor; I am going to frame a chase it to and beyond the roof, then have my local hearth shop install the double wall pipe, class A pipe, penetrations, and cap. Once that part of the installation is complete, I am going to finish the shear and siding.

Now for the stove. I think I have narrowed my choice down to the Pacific Energy Summit and the Blaze King King. I have 5,000 total square feet including the basement, a 2 story entryway that draws warm air upstairs pretty well, and the main cold air return of the downstairs heat pump is in the same room that the stove is going.

My goal is to burn wood full time, and to hopefully limit the heat pump use to taking the chill off of the house while the stove gets going, as well as to reach the hinterlands of the house via selective vent opening and closing.

I am also open to other models of high output/long burn time rigs. I have a solid 4 cords of seasoned hardwoods, and am already working to stock up for the next couple of seasons.

Also: I grew up with wood burning stoves as our only source of heat in the High Sierra of eastern California, so I am relatively wood stove qualified.

Thanks in advance for the advice!

 

[MountainHigh]

good choices but as you know, quite different stoves. Neither one is rated for 5000 sq ft, but with your cold air return moving the hot air around your home it might work. just make sure you have good suction in your chimney setup - the motor of any stove is the chimney and its ability to draw well in our typically well sealed homes can sometimes be challenging when you have conflicting interests on your outdoor air supply, and in your case your return air duct.

I have the PE Summit and it is a BEAST when I need (2500 sq ft 2 story basement entry) and idles down ok, but it does not have the super long burn times the BIG BK has.

BK KING CAT stove is ideal if you want slow steady burn for 20+ hours (they say 30 hours is doable, but you surely won't heat 5000 sq ft on a cold day if you're burning that slow and long) and I hear it can also burn hot when you need (but at much shorter burn times). LARGE firebox and very nice thermostat. Sooty window is often the norm on low long burns due to Cat squeezing out every last burn particle - Requires 8" flue.

PE SUMMIT is REAL HEATING BEAST when you need it (rated for 3000 sq ft), but it will not burn as efficiently or as long at low temps (I get 9 hours to coals on my oversized clay flue masonry chimney at -5 celcius). Awesome dancing flames through large window for the first few hours of its high temp burn, and the window that stays cleaner than a cat stove. Summit firebox is smaller than BK King and runs off a 6" flue.

The reason I went with PE Summit is because it is more forgiving on my chimney and it also puts more heat up the chimney than a CAT stove can, and in my case that's great,because I want the heat in my large thermal mass centrally located chimney.

Even if your home is super insulated and has triple pane windows, you might want to look at a wood furnace that hooks right into your existing duct work, if that is what you have.

Happy to answer any more questions if I can.

 

[unclemoustache]

I got the BK princess recently. VERY happy with it, but I wish I would have gotten the King.

I think of the BK brand to be like Toyota. Ford, Chevy and Dodge are always making fun of each other, but Toyota stands above and beyond them all. So it is with Blaze King. The best of the best. Dealer told me that they don't know how long the stoves last - no one has managed to wear one out yet.

 

[Highbeam]

BK KING CAT stove is ideal if you want slow steady burn for 20+ hours (they say 30 hours is doable, but you surely won't heat 5000 sq ft on a cold day if you're burning that slow and long) and I hear it can also burn hot when you need (but at much shorter burn times).

Woops, the king model requires an 8" flue and burns for 40 hours on low. The smaller princess model that I have is "only" rated for 30 hours and uses a 6" flue. Additionally, both stoves can be burned hotter with reduced burn times but still with superior efficiency. A wide range of available output. According to BK, the smaller princess model outsells the King model 10:1 in Alaska. Weird.

The PE products are very nice though. I have to ask, if you are looking for a big non-cat why on earth not save a ton of money and get the larger Englander NC30 for way way less money. More output, less money, also a great reputation with superior manufacturer support. My second stove for the shop is an NC30 for these reasons. I like the non-cat for the shop because of cost and so that I can burn somewhat unconventional things like chunks of plywood or nails in the wood.

 

[MountainHigh]

Woops, the king model requires an 8" flue and burns for 40 hours on low. The smaller princess model that I have is "only" rated for 30 hours and uses a 6" flue. Additionally, both stoves can be burned hotter with reduced burn times but still with superior efficiency. A wide range of available output. According to BK, the smaller princess model outsells the King model 10:1 in Alaska. Weird.

The PE products are very nice though. I have to ask, if you are looking for a big non-cat why on earth not save a ton of money and get the larger Englander NC30 for way way less money. More output, less money, also a great reputation with superior manufacturer support. My second stove for the shop is an NC30 for these reasons. I like the non-cat for the shop because of cost and so that I can burn somewhat unconventional things like chunks of plywood or nails in the wood.

Please re-read my post - I mentioned the BK King has an 8" flue.
As far as burn times go, I am referring to real world results from local neighbours who burn BK Kings 24/7, not company stats. I am relating to what people are actually getting on their stoves that live just down the road from me. (none of them live in homes over 2500 sq ft.)

Around here we burn mostly Maple , Birch and Fir, so someone might get longer burns with harder wood back east. *However*, there is no way this side of hell anyone is going to get even a 20 hour burn out of a BlazeKing King when trying to heat 5000 sq. ft. through even a timid west coast Canadian winter. The OP's climate may vary.

On days when the temp is below freezing, the sheer size of the OP's house will demand running any stove this size flat out (Summit, Englander, BK King), not idling along in ideal conditions where the company managed to squeeze every last minute out of a piece of wood for their marketing brochure (yes I've read it).

As far as the Englander vs Summit goes, I think the main difference may be in the baffle design - Summit has a very sturdy and efficient Stainless Steel secondary burn baffle box design unique to the PE line. Not sure what you are paying for them in the US, but up here a Summit is about $2300 Cdn. If buying in US dollars, that's about $1700.

Still, as much as I like my Summit for what it does, I stand by my assertion that I would not suggest any of these stoves are adequate to heat a 5000 sq ft home, unless the OP lives in an area that seldom sees temps below freezing and his home is very well sealed and insulated.

 

[Rangerbait]

Please re-read my post - I mentioned the BK King has an 8" flue.
As far as burn times go, I am referring to real world results from local neighbours who burn BK Kings 24/7, not company stats. I am relating to what people are actually getting on their stoves that live just down the road from me. (none of them live in homes over 2500 sq ft.)

Around here we burn mostly Maple , Birch and Fir, so someone might get longer burns with harder wood back east. *However*, there is no way this side of hell anyone is going to get even a 20 hour burn out of a BlazeKing King when trying to heat 5000 sq. ft. through even a timid west coast Canadian winter. The OP's climate may vary.

On days when the temp is below freezing, the sheer size of the OP's house will demand running any stove this size flat out (Summit, Englander, BK King), not idling along in ideal conditions where the company managed to squeeze every last minute out of a piece of wood for their marketing brochure (yes I've read it).

As far as the Englander vs Summit goes, I think the main difference may be in the baffle design - Summit has a very sturdy and efficient Stainless Steel secondary burn baffle box design unique to the PE line. Not sure what you are paying for them in the US, but up here a Summit is about $2300 Cdn. If buying in US dollars, that's about $1700.

Still, as much as I like my Summit for what it does, I stand by my assertion that I would not suggest any of these stoves are adequate to heat a 5000 sq ft home, unless the OP lives in an area that seldom sees temps below freezing and his home is very well sealed and insulated.

Super long burn times are not really of primary importance to me, and I will be using my electric heat pumps to supplement the stove's ability to heat the house. My goals are to use the electric heat pumps significantly less than I currently am, as well as to get back into the wood cutting/burning culture of my youth. I also want to have a heat/cooking source that's available when (if) the power goes out.

The climate here in the eastern panhandle of West Virginia is not too extreme, although even in this unusually mild winter we had a few good stretches of single digits, and many days with highs in the teens.

December was pretty cold, and our electric bill was almost $700 [emoji33]. Granted, we did have house guests staying for Christmas, so that may be a bit of an outlier.

Also: the house is about 10 years old and relatively well insulated.

 

[MountainHigh]

Super long burn times are not really of primary importance to me, and I will be using my electric heat pumps to supplement the stove's ability to heat the house. My goals are to use the electric heat pumps significantly less than I currently am, as well as to get back into the wood cutting/burning culture of my youth. I also want to have a heat/cooking source that's available when (if) the power goes out.

The climate here in the eastern panhandle of West Virginia is not too extreme, although even in this unusually mild winter we had a few good stretches of single digits, and many days with highs in the teens.

December was pretty cold, and our electric bill was almost $700 [emoji33]. Granted, we did have house guests staying for Christmas, so that may be a bit of an outlier.

Also: the house is about 10 years old and relatively well insulated.

Thats is an expensive electric bill! If super long burn times are not your goal, then the Summit is a good choice. I have no experience with the Englander model, other than noticing they are quite inexpensive. As a supplementary heat source and trying to save some money,they may also fit the bill well.

What kind of chimney will you be using? Inside centrally located masonry? Double Walled pipe straight up NOT on an outside wall? I assume your chimney is not in yet, as we're talking about 8" and 6" pipe stoves. The reason to think long about your chimney is that CAT stoves put up less heat in the chimney, they throw their heat off mostly at their location, while my Summit, will kick out the BTU's at location, but put more BTU's up the chimney.

In my case, trying to also heat a second floor, the Summit not only provides strong convection heat in the basement entry floor, but also heats up my oversize Chimney really well, which then radiates heat for hours into the second floor living area. A CAT stove would not put enough heat up my chimney to draw well or build up enough heat in the thermal mass of my masonry chimney to keep the upstairs toasty warm.

My neighbours that love their BK Kings all have their stoves right in the middle of their home centrally located, so they get the greatest amount of heat where they are spending the most time, and they can cook on their stoves as well. That seems to be the location Cat stove works best. But if you want to tuck it away on a lower floor in a large home, a CAT stove is not the best solution.

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

$700! Holy ****ing ****! That's what i pay for power in nearly 2 YEARS!

4 cords isn't going to heat 5000 sq ft for a winter. Maybe 10-12 will.

 

[Rangerbait]

$700! Holy ****ing ****! That's what i pay for power in nearly 2 YEARS!

4 cords isn't going to heat 5000 sq ft for a winter. Maybe 10-12 will.

Says the guy selling firewood [emoji1]

I actually hope it ends taking more than 4 cords...more excuse to get back out into the woods!

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

Nothing to do withbthat, just the facts. I heat 1400sq ft with a Blaze King on 3 cords.

You have over 3 times the house, so I'd imagine at a minimum 3 times the wood. You have a herd of kids like Uncle Mustache? I think he uses a school bus to truck them around.

The shop is around 5000sq ft and we burn 20+ cords to keep it at 55-60*

 

[Rangerbait]

Nothing to do withbthat, just the facts. I heat 1400sq ft with a Blaze King on 3 cords.

You have over 3 times the house, so I'd imagine at a minimum 3 times the wood. You have a herd of kids like Uncle Mustache? I think he uses a school bus to truck them around.

The shop is around 5000sq ft and we burn 20+ cords to keep it at 55-60*

Haha...yeah, have 5 under the roof, although the teenage daughter is the chief complainant when it gets cold in the house. I started cutting in January on some walnut/mulberry/hackberry/cherry logs at a friend's farm that had been sitting a good 3 years, plus grabbed probably 4 cords of poplar and sassafras from another friend's homesite he's clearing. I have another stash of ash and Shagbark Hickory that I have unlimited access to, so I really do hope I end up needing a good bit of wood; I'd hate to think that I got an entire year's worth in just a handful of outings...what am I going to do for fun the rest of the year?

 

[walk-in]

Just came across this.

We live in Interior Alaska. It's -10 right now, & commonly reaches -40 in the winter. At the temps we have now, I load the stove twice a day & leave the thermostat right at the very bottom of the normal range.

We've had a BK Princess as the primary heat in our 2300sf house for about 10 years. It is located on an exterior wall with an up & out pipe. Not the ideal setup, but works well. We burn about 5 1/2-6 cords of mostly birch & some spruce per year. The house is pretty well insulated with triple pane windows, so that helps.

My brother had a PE in Western Oregon. He loved it. Of course he didn't have extreme cold temps, so I can't say how it would perform here.

 

[Jutt]

BK King is what I would get if my NC30 weren't so darn good...

 

[NGaMountains]

Not directly addressing your question, but we just installed a BK Princess insert this summer in our living room and I've started using it over the last three weeks as the temps have dropped. I already have a Quadra-Fire in my basement, and the BK is my first cat stove. I am beyond thrilled with the heat output and duration of burns the BK is giving us. Good luck whatever way you decide to go.

 

[Marshy]

Looks like @Rangerbait started this thread in March of 2017 so I believe he likely already had made his choice. Regardless it's a good conversation.

From my experience with a BK King, it wasnt enough heat output to heat my house without changing either it's configuration (like vents in floor to allow heat up from the basement) or finishing my basement (adding insulation at least).

My ranch home is 1850 sqft on a full (unfinished) basement which has a walkout with a garage and man door. While the stove was able to heat the basement into the low 80's even on the coldest winter nights, the heat was not distributing well enough to heat my bed rooms above 63-67F. I was loading the stove 3 times a day and burning it on max output 24/7. On a stuffed full Fire box it would last 8-9 hours of usable heat before the coals wenr't able to meet demand and house temp would begin to decline. I burned my average amount of wood (didn't see and savings), about 6 cord.

Loved the stove, just wasn't meeting my needs and was having a slight creosote buildup in the upper 3 ft of the masonry chimney. That combined with wanting to get the wood out of the house drove me to get a Froling boiler with a heat storage tank.

 

[stratton]

Please re-read my post - I mentioned the BK King has an 8" flue.
As far as burn times go, I am referring to real world results from local neighbours who burn BK Kings 24/7, not company stats. I am relating to what people are actually getting on their stoves that live just down the road from me. (none of them live in homes over 2500 sq ft.)

Around here we burn mostly Maple , Birch and Fir, so someone might get longer burns with harder wood back east. *However*, there is no way this side of hell anyone is going to get even a 20 hour burn out of a BlazeKing King when trying to heat 5000 sq. ft. through even a timid west coast Canadian winter. The OP's climate may vary.

On days when the temp is below freezing, the sheer size of the OP's house will demand running any stove this size flat out (Summit, Englander, BK King), not idling along in ideal conditions where the company managed to squeeze every last minute out of a piece of wood for their marketing brochure (yes I've read it).

As far as the Englander vs Summit goes, I think the main difference may be in the baffle design - Summit has a very sturdy and efficient Stainless Steel secondary burn baffle box design unique to the PE line. Not sure what you are paying for them in the US, but up here a Summit is about $2300 Cdn. If buying in US dollars, that's about $1700.

Still, as much as I like my Summit for what it does, I stand by my assertion that I would not suggest any of these stoves are adequate to heat a 5000 sq ft home, unless the OP lives in an area that seldom sees temps below freezing and his home is very well sealed and insulated.

Mr mountain, You hit the nail on the head. Go with a furnace, !!

 

[Rangerbait]

I ended up going with the BK King, and have been very impressed. As I suspected, the two story entry of my home does a great job of drawing heat up to the second floor where 4 of the bedrooms are, and as long as the doors are open up there, the temps stay 70-72 even when it's down in the low teens. Couldn't be happier with this stove.

 

[stratton]

I ended up going with the BK King, and have been very impressed. As I suspected, the two story entry of my home does a great job of drawing heat up to the second floor where 4 of the bedrooms are, and as long as the doors are open up there, the temps stay 70-72 even when it's down in the low teens. Couldn't be happier with this stove.

Good news !!

 

[Rangerbait]

For reference, here was the starting point...builder grade propane fireplace with dated oak and granite surround/hearth.

 

[Marine5068]

Super long burn times are not really of primary importance to me, and I will be using my electric heat pumps to supplement the stove's ability to heat the house. My goals are to use the electric heat pumps significantly less than I currently am, as well as to get back into the wood cutting/burning culture of my youth. I also want to have a heat/cooking source that's available when (if) the power goes out.

The climate here in the eastern panhandle of West Virginia is not too extreme, although even in this unusually mild winter we had a few good stretches of single digits, and many days with highs in the teens.

December was pretty cold, and our electric bill was almost $700 [emoji33]. Granted, we did have house guests staying for Christmas, so that may be a bit of an outlier.

Also: the house is about 10 years old and relatively well insulated.

$700 in one month? WOW.
I burn wood in a large stove centrally located in the basement (Drolet HT2000) and also burn Wood pellets in a stove on the main living level (Envirofire Evolution) and I use about $900 worth of heat for the whole heating season. That for like 3 months plus.
Although firewood prices keeps going up every year.