Whoa ... "Stihl's" new saw

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Just wait until something breaks, and you get your $$$ bill from the dealer....No thanks.....I think I'll stick with buying used saws with carbs.
 
I don't know if I agree with the M-Tronic stuff not being supported when practically the entire Pro-Series lineup uses M-Tronic carbs. Same goes for a lot of the Husky Pro saws, it would be suicide to stop supporting these items in short order. I am not saying it can't or won't happen, but there would have to be a rather long transition period where fuel injected saws are introduced to the lineup thereby replacing all of the carb'd and m-tronic carb saws and then the parts supply would have to dry up. At the rate it takes Stihl to launch a new model this would take 10+ years and a then a few more on top of that for the parts supply to dwindle. If it did happen there would be ample time to dump/replace/upgrade yours saws with the writing on the wall.
 
Mtronic won't be supported down the road. Once the chip goes bad in 10 years good luck. Just look at the 056 Mag 11 for an example. Proprietary chips that the aftermarket cannot successfully copy, means continuing new saw sales. Most professionals do not care as much since the saws life expectancy is generally a year or two anyway.

We can probably count on some pretty long term support for these saws.
These chips are not made by Stihl rather, someone is making them for Stihl.
Once the R+D is paid for, the cost of making and piling these units is really cheap.... I would count on Stihl to have a couple decade supply before the M-tronic Saw production ends (it's still going strong).
Some third party performance chip maker could step in as well to make chips and hot rod saws.
If it has not happened already, It's just a matter of time before a Saw Tuner and a Coder get together and "jail break" the M-tronic to offer aftermarket firmware and manual tune-ability.
I come from the camera/photography field where this has been done both with Autofocus emulator chips on lenses as well as Camera version Firmware to enhance video performance.
It's all just processing.... Stihl is making use of already long proven tech....
They may market it as Proprietary but it's not exactly magic.
 
Proprietary-- ask farmers about that on JD equipment-
Problem - when it works its great when it fails might as well replace it
Hi tech is great -when it fails - there goes production ($$$$$$$) out the window.

True, but there's at least one very important difference: cost. Reasonably speaking, the cost of a pro saw can be covered in 2-5 days of work if it's being used professionally. During that time it usually isn't even run full time, more like 3-4 hours a day maybe. Try that with a John Deere. Saws are cheap enough that even small time professionals can easily afford to have one or more backups. They're also small so packing along and storing a couple backups isn't that difficult.
 
True, but there's at least one very important difference: cost. Reasonably speaking, the cost of a pro saw can be covered in 2-5 days of work if it's being used professionally. During that time it usually isn't even run full time, more like 3-4 hours a day maybe. Try that with a John Deere. Saws are cheap enough that even small time professionals can easily afford to have one or more backups. They're also small so packing along and storing a couple backups isn't that difficult.

That's fine but if you have 2 saws on the job and one breaks you grab the other and fix the first one later at the shop assuming it's not blown up. What if your saw with fuel injection craps out then you are down a saw for a while because it has to go to the dealer to fix it. So now what do you do? It's sort of the same idea as the john deere. Either way you are out a piece of equiptment for a while.


I think I'm not understanding the advantage of fuel injection over carbureted saws.
 
The advantage of FI over Carburetor is Future proofing.
Like it or not EPA is for real.
We saw this with outboard motors a few years back.
The old carbureted "Coal burners" could not pass higher standards.
Stihl is working towards a future in the US and EU market by getting this FI program up and running.
Otherwise they could be locked out as emission standards continue to snug up.
 
A better mouse trap - maybe. I do not mind fuel injection- I do mind the electrical problems associated with current state of the art systems, That and as stated only a dealer with computer program can reset. - not good in my book. Temperature extremes and vibration are the enemy of solid state components- then toss in the bean counters always looking for a cost reduction at the expense of reliability.
 
The current M-tronic can be reset to factory settings by the user. I think the instructions are in the manual. If not they're well known and posted here. Chances are the FI system will have at least that.

I'd like a way to read the sensors & error codes like with OBD-2 on cars. That should be required to be available to consumers as it is with OBD-2., along with parts availabilty at a reasonable price and for a reasonably long period. (for all I know Stihl sells M-tronic stuff for a reasonable price; I have not needed any). While I have used more sophsticated programs to change settings or totally change engine maps on cars, I do not see that as a requirement. Having been on the other side I understand why Stihl would want to have dealers service M-tronics- it's less hassle for Stihl and they are more likely to get accurate problem reports from the field, so they can fix problems faster. Some sort of legislation may be needed to force them to support an open format for querying the ECU.
 
The advantage of FI over Carburetor is Future proofing.
Like it or not EPA is for real.
We saw this with outboard motors a few years back.
The old carbureted "Coal burners" could not pass higher standards.
Stihl is working towards a future in the US and EU market by getting this FI program up and running.
Otherwise they could be locked out as emission standards continue to snug up.

But why chainsaws and not lawn mowers or string trimmers or all the other small engine equiptment. I'm not buying it I think it's an attempt to make the next greatest thing. Yea Obama shut down the coal power plant in my town that funded everything for the town but nothing about small engines and i don't think Trump cares about any of that.
 
Where are you coming up with a figure of $2K?
Just an intelligent guess, coupled with the fact that the fuel injection technology has to be paid for by somebody. That "somebody" is the customer. Stihl will rifle the cost right back to the market. Perhaps the market is tired of rebuilding, replacing, and adjusting carburetors. The market may be ripe for something new that lasts and lasts.

However, how long will a fuel injection system on a chain saw last and what will it take to fix one after it conks out? That remains to be seen.
 
Lawn mowers and all small engines will have to conform to the EPA within 5 years Kawasaki will have fuel injection on all of its engines in lawn mowers, this I was told this year at Kawasaki school , they has a fuel injected engine there. It is available now I believe , It is coming whether you like it or not. I felt the same way about electronic ign back in the 70s It will all be fine in the long run. I remember when a car was worn out at 100000 miles, now look at them lasting for 3 or 4 times that long
 
There has been a lot of changes since the 90s that make cars last a lot longer but I wouldn't say it was to make the epa happy. If it were up to the epa there wouldn't be gas engines.

It's not just engines they mess with us in the hvac field too. Once they decide a refrigerant is good to use every body comes around and adapts to it then they change it. R22 is a thing of the past and r410a will soon be finding a replacement.
 
Just an intelligent guess, coupled with the fact that the fuel injection technology has to be paid for by somebody. That "somebody" is the customer. Stihl will rifle the cost right back to the market. Perhaps the market is tired of rebuilding, replacing, and adjusting carburetors. The market may be ripe for something new that lasts and lasts.

However, how long will a fuel injection system on a chain saw last and what will it take to fix one after it conks out? That remains to be seen.
I can't see it being more than a 661. Just my opinion. I can't see the market bearing that.
 
I can't see it being more than a 661. Just my opinion. I can't see the market bearing that.

Somebody might think the fuel injection is worth the premium price, but I can't see it either. Sitting back and watching, I was really hoping they'd throw fuel injection into an 880 or similar sized saw. Imagine an 8-9 hp saw, weighing a pound or two more than a 661, now that's worth something.
 
The biggest challenge (in my opinion) with the advancements will be creating the sensors and hardware that are needed to run the system. ( air/fuel ratio sensors, throttle position sensor, mass air flow sensor, fuel pump)
Or am I wrong? What does m tronic use to monitor mixture control ?
Everything that they need has been engineered for the automotive industry but not scaled to a handheld power tool.
 
the more complex the more areas for faults- design functions and r&d prove out some but it is the consumer end that tells the real story. I have an acquaintance that buys 55 gal drums of aviation fuel for all his small engines and fancy boat. He is well heeled and can afford that perk. Most of us do not have that option.
I could start ranting on copyright laws and such MFG vs consumer on programs that make your equipment run, or not. You can look it up it has been an on going battle dating back a number of years already. According to MFG you don't own the program simply a lease it- which leads to a on going payment system to keep using what ever above and beyond the purchase price - Doesn't take much to figure out how that will play out- you have already seen that in the computer industry.
 
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