Something aint adding up here...

[T-Dozzer]

So I got an older 066 on trade from a buddy who is hard on tools. It had old gas in it, when I got it so i figured I was atleast looking at some carb work. I never got it started. Cylinder & piston have some obvious wear, but didnt look crazy bad. Still has enough compression to break your wrist pulling the cord.
Took it to the local stihl dealer and told him it was acting like it wasn't getting gas. The mechanic calls me today and said it wont start because the top end is shot & it will be $350 in parts.
Not sure I trust this mechanic. The spark plug was bone dry.
Maybe time for second opinion?

 

[kenton.a.frank]

Posting a picture of the front and rear of the piston will help in the community’s assessment. Depends on what you determine as not bad. Any scoring is bad.


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[T-Dozzer]

Ofcourse scoring is bad, but it has good compression and is not seized. My question is whether or not that would effect it not starting. Running poorly, sure but not even turning over?

 

[cgraham1]

Of course scoring is bad, but it has good compression and is not seized. My question is whether or not that would effect it not starting. Running poorly, sure but not even turning over?

Whether or not what would affect it not starting? You only need three things to make a saw run... compression, fuel(& air), and spark. You’ve stated that the saw has compression. Does it have spark? Is it timed correctly? Is the carb adjusted correctly, does it have an air leak?

You’ve told us very little about what you’ve actually done to get the saw started.

Typically if a saw has sat for a long time, and is not getting fuel, you can simply dump a shot of fuel straight into the carb or pull the spark plug and dump a little fuel right into the cylinder through the plug hole, then reinstall the plug and try to start it... if it starts and dies, then it’s a fuel system problem.

As far as what the shop told you, if you don’t trust the mechanic, just take the top end off yourself and see how it looks... It’s a pretty simple job.

 

[HarleyT]

You expect a decent mechanic to waste a bunch of time on a saw with bad piston scoring?

If he gets it to actually start and run for a little while, then what? It wouldn't run long, and then you would biatch about paying him for his time, go around telling folks how bad he is, etc....

Hopefully he will charge you for looking at it and giving an estimate.

 

[deezlfan]

Are you are inferring it has compression based on the effort it takes to pull the saw over? You never mention an actual compression test. A saw with a severely fawked up piston and cylinder or ruined bearings may pull over just as hard as a saw with good compression. Results will be quite different.

 

[LoveStihlQuality]

I asked long time dealer look out for 028S muffler. Monthish got call. Whole saw very little use $25 with a dirty gray case, note said scored piston. Checked compression, 155. Tuned, ran like new. Piston only had slightest smudge. Pressure and vac test. Ran it hard, cleaned up and sold. Definitly a 'You Suck'. Sooo, seems that anything at all on piston is diagnosed "scored ". Asked to call me with any saws scored saws not picked up by customers.

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[wcorey]

You expect a decent mechanic to waste a bunch of time on a saw with bad piston scoring?

Who said anything about bad scoring? He said it had some wear, lots of good running saws show signs of wear...

 

[dmb2613]

I am a Stihl cert. tech If the piston has any scoring at all, I will tell you. They never get better with use. Granted a Stihl will run with scored pistons and cylinders when others will not start. But that does not mean it does not need to be replaced. I have bought saws here that were said to have great compression only to find a scored piston.
David

 

[cgraham1]

Granted a Stihl will run with scored pistons and cylinders when others will not start.

Reminds me of an 048 I bought... it was real hard to start, but did run. Pulled the muffler to find the top end was ruined. I still can’t believe it ran at all.

 

[T-Dozzer]

You expect a decent mechanic to waste a bunch of time on a saw with bad piston scoring?

If he gets it to actually start and run for a little while, then what? It wouldn't run long, and then you would biatch about paying him for his time, go around telling folks how bad he is, etc....

Hopefully he will charge you for looking at it and giving an estimate.

Whoa... easy fella..
I paid him upfront just to look at it.
I dont have pics of the top end. It has carbon build up and mild wear marks. No worse than my 461 that runs like a top.
Its getting good spark. Not sure on the timing.
Spark plug is bone dry and doesnt smell like fuel after alot of pulls.
I didnt put a compression tester on it.

What Im getting at it, is I think he just pulled the muffler off and looked at the cylinder witout even figuring out the fuel issue. Im told it ran great last fall. Then was put away with fuel in it.

 

[HarleyT]

Scarred up old Homelites can have great compression.

 

[HarleyT]

But you expect him to go through a saw's fuel system, when he says it has piston damage?

 

[T-Dozzer]

I am a Stihl cert. tech If the piston has any scoring at all, I will tell you. They never get better with use. Granted a Stihl will run with scored pistons and cylinders when others will not start. But that does not mean it does not need to be replaced. I have bought saws here that were said to have great compression only to find a scored piston.
David

Thanks. I have no doubt its due for a top end at some point. Just seemed like he jumped straight to that before figuring out the likely fuel issue.
Im not saying the guy is a bad mechanic, but Ive had several buddies tell me to not use this particular shop.

 

[kenton.a.frank]

Have you tried to diagnose? I’d say a spritz of fuel down the throat is in order to weed out the potential of a fuel issue. Imagine that tech not telling you it was scored. Completely going through the carb and you walking away with a saw that “ran” thinking “well I took it to the dealership and all they needed was $150 for a fuel system restore” now 5 hours later it won’t run again. You take it back to the dealership pissed that it isn’t running again just to hear the tech say it had a slightly scored or “worn” piston. Don’t you think you would have wanted to know it needed a $350 top end.

He is just trying to cover his ass. If the top end does not look mint he isn’t going to dig into the cheaper stuff that won’t matter if the top end goes out. If it was my saw, sure I’d spend time on the carb and get more time out of it before a top end replacement. But fron the perspective of the dealer it isn’t their time or money being spent if it only last one more tank before it totally goes, it is the customers.


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[T-Dozzer]

But you expect him to go through a saw's fuel system, when he says it has piston damage?

Yeah. I wanted to know what the fuel issue was. Even if its just gave me a place to start. I dont tbink the piston is damaged. Well worn, definitely, but I planned to do a new top end on it in the future anyway since its primary use will be in a CS mill.
I paid him the inspection fee and and an hour of labor and I think all he did was pull the muffler off and look at the cylinder/piston.
That was the first thing I did when i got the saw.
He is telling me the reason it wont start is due to the piston/cylinder. Im far from an expert, but Ive done a handful of topend swaps. I don't think the wear he and I have both seen is the reason it wont start. Thats all im getting at here.....

 

[T-Dozzer]

Have you tried to diagnose? I’d say a spritz of fuel down the throat is in order to weed out the potential of a fuel issue. Imagine that tech not telling you it was scored. Completely going through the carb and you walking away with a saw that “ran” thinking “well I took it to the dealership and all they needed was $150 for a fuel system restore” now 5 hours later it won’t run again. You take it back to the dealership pissed that it isn’t running again just to hear the tech say it had a slightly scored or “worn” piston. Don’t you think you would have wanted to know it needed a $350 top end.

He is just trying to cover his ass. If the top end does not look mint he isn’t going to dig into the cheaper stuff that won’t matter if the top end goes out. If it was my saw, sure I’d spend time on the carb and get more time out of it before a top end replacement. But fron the perspective of the dealer it isn’t their time or money being spent if it only last one more tank before it totally goes, it is the customers.


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You make a good point...

 

[LoveStihlQuality]

Even still had plastic film covering the metal name plate and had Stihl rim sprocket conversion. Definitely a score.

I asked long time dealer look out for 028S muffler. Monthish got call. Whole saw very little use $25 with a dirty gray case, note said scored piston. Checked compression, 155. Tuned, ran like new. Piston only had slightest smudge. Pressure and vac test. Ran it hard, cleaned up and sold. Definitly a 'You Suck'. Sooo, seems that anything at all on piston is diagnosed "scored ". Asked to call me with any saws scored saws not picked up by customers.

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[cgraham1]

I doubt the cylinder needs replaced... maybe the piston.

 

[HarleyT]

I doubt the cylinder needs replaced... maybe the piston.

It's kind of hard to tell by the pics...