Cylinder honing

[The Singing Arborist]

So another question about honing scored cylinders. I had a scored piston, rings and cylinder in my cs800. I replaced all of them with oem. Now I'm getting into the idea of porting this saw by just cleaning up and widening the ports. I practiced on the old cylinder and was wondering...if I cleaned up the light scratches on the old, now ported cylinder, and put that on the new piston and rings, what kind of risk do I run to the new piston and rings? In cases where the hone didn't work for you guys in the past, what ended up getting damaged in the failure?

I really want to get deeper in this chainsaw modding stuff, but want to do it carefully as I make money using these saws.

 

[cus_deluxe]

I didn't have a big enough chuck to put the feet in .
In case you need it I have the clutch cover here for the 362 .
Also the P&C, but I'm guessing those won't ever be used again.

Yeah id love that cover, didnt know until recently that they are different from the large mount.

 

[chipper1]

Yeah id love that cover, didnt know until recently that they are different from the large mount.

Just a little lol.
Shot me your addy again.

 

[chipper1]

I hold no animosity......and can't recall the last time I posted anything negative about this site on any other forums. But......I'm not known for holding back when it comes to expressing my feelings.

So.......maybe you might try not being a.....what was that????? A "Debbie Does Dallas" ? LOL

Wish you could be here Brent. It's gonna be a hoot.

Me either , just you said you were a bit burned out over yonder.
What I hear when someone says, the place ain't too appealing to me these days, isn't exactly positive, but maybe my understanding is off a little off. You know by our conversations I'm not shy either .



If I said it's not to appealing to me would that be negative .
I would like to, but this time of the year is crazy busy, not sure how you do the gtg this time of the yr .
Hope you guys have a great time. I'm still a bit worried about my car breaking down there .

 

[SmellyPirateHooker]

Honing a chrome plated cylinder is an interesting concept to me. I mean it will help with brake in I suppose but how does the cylinder side ever bed in when the chrome is so hard? Then again when it comes to engines in general, 2 strokes are less effected by ring seal then 4 strokes, small motors are less effected by seal then large ones, and fast motors are less effected by ring seal then slow ones. This transcends all engines no matter what the application. I know with motocross bikes we would put many new piston and rings in untouched 2 stroke cylinders before having an issue, and they weren't plated. I also know that when bikes like the xr600 had to be redone, Honda would say either don't touch it or replace the jug. Do not hone.

So I guess in the end with a saw motor being so small and high RPM in nature, a hone could give some cushion/protection possibly without effecting seal. I would think it's somewhat permanent rather then a temporary thing like it would be on a non-plated cylinder.

 

[Mastermind Worksaws]

What I hear when someone says, the place ain't too appealing to me these days, isn't exactly positive, but maybe my understanding is off a little off.

Oh I meant what I said.

This site is not very appealing to me anymore. Hell, there's more political posts here than anything else. Most "discussions" here end up devolving into petty snippets of back biting snide comments from the peanut gallery.

But....you might not see that since you're knee deep in it. For myself, having stepped back from it, I probably see it too clearly.

 

[Mastermind Worksaws]

Honing a chrome plated cylinder is an interesting concept to me. I mean it will help with brake in I suppose but how does the cylinder side ever bed in when the chrome is so hard? Then again when it comes to engines in general, 2 strokes are less effected by ring seal then 4 strokes, small motors are less effected by seal then large ones, and fast motors are less effected by ring seal then slow ones. This transcends all engines no matter what the application. I know with motocross bikes we would put many new piston and rings in untouched 2 stroke cylinders before having an issue, and they weren't plated. I also know that when bikes like the xr600 had to be redone, Honda would say either don't touch it or replace the jug. Do not hone.

So I guess in the end with a saw motor being so small and high RPM in nature, a hone could give some cushion/protection possibly without effecting seal. I would think it's somewhat permanent rather then a temporary thing like it would be on a non-plated cylinder.

Here's what I do. It may, or may not work for anyone else.

 

[SmellyPirateHooker]

Here's what I do. It may, or may not work for anyone else.

That cylinder looked slick after the scotch brite! See id try that now that I've seen someone else do it but would have never ventured that route on my own. I've always used muriatic acid but it sounds like you don't like it. What's the reason?

 

[Mastermind Worksaws]

That cylinder looked slick after the scotch brite! See id try that now that I've seen someone else do it but would have never ventured that route on my own. I've always used muriatic acid but it sounds like you don't like it. What's the reason?

If there are any pinholes, or scratches that go into the aluminum beneath he plating, the acid will eat away at it, and undermine the area making it far worse. Then there's the fumes, and the mess.

Most people think a small hole in the plating, or a little gouge will cause the cylinder to be unusable. That's not really true. As long as the majority of the bore is in good shape, and all the aluminum is removed, it will run just fine. Scratches will fill up with carbon over time.....

 

[SmellyPirateHooker]

If there are any pinholes, or scratches that go into the aluminum beneath he plating, the acid will eat away at it, and undermine the area making it far worse. Then there's the fumes, and the mess.




Most people think a small hole in the plating, or a little gouge will cause the cylinder to be unusable. That's not really true. As long as the majority of the bore is in good shape, and all the aluminum is removed, it will run just fine. Scratches will fill up with carbon over time.....

That makes a lot of sense

 

[rms61moparman]

Sometimes, great big nasty gouges will not effect the way a cylinder runs, depending on their location and the need for a running saw. Ain't that right wigglesworth???


Mike

 

[muddstopper]

I am in no way a probuilder, but I have my own method of removing the aluminum transfer. I take the cyl out side and set on the ground. I then stuff a blue rag on a roll towel into the bore and pour it full of the muratic acid. I let it set for about 15 minutes letting the acid soften up the transfer and then take a forked wooden dowel rod in my drill and stick it into the towel and spin it with the drill. This doesnt remove any of the chrome or scratch or hone the cyl, but it will remove the transfer.

 

[Mastermind Worksaws]

Sometimes, great big nasty gouges will not effect the way a cylinder runs, depending on their location and the need for a running saw. Ain't that right wigglesworth???


Mike

Speaking of @wigglesworth he will be here tomorrow for the GTG.

How are you Mike?

 

[Mastermind Worksaws]

I am in no way a probuilder, but I have my own method of removing the aluminum transfer. I take the cyl out side and set on the ground. I then stuff a blue rag on a roll towel into the bore and pour it full of the muratic acid. I let it set for about 15 minutes letting the acid soften up the transfer and then take a forked wooden dowel rod in my drill and stick it into the towel and spin it with the drill. This doesnt remove any of the chrome or scratch or hone the cyl, but it will remove the transfer.

Sounds good to me.

 

[pioneerguy600]

A final hone for less than 30 seconds just to polish a cylinder is not too damaging but trying to hone out aluminum transfer or deep scratches will destroy a plated cylinder. Like Randy already explained, acid can and will destroy bare aluminum and a lot of cylinders have small pock marks,pits and such where the acid will get through the plating to the bare aluminum underneath and that little pock mark becomes much large quickly. Due to many reasons, local, no dealerships , before internet etc it was difficult to get new parts easily so one had to make do with what was on hand to keep a saw running til new parts could acquired. I have ran and kept saws running with cylinders damaged to the point that these days no one would believe they would run or last. Back then we just made sure the damaged areas, scratches or gouges were undercut enough that they would not cause further damage, sanding, scraping down the high points and put back together saved many woods workers countless down days of lost work. Wasn`t uncommon then for a woods worker to have only one saw, heavens forbid this today, right.
I have older saws that have huge chunks out of the cylinder or piston still running, would they make 2000 hours, not likely but many have been run many hundreds of hours now and continue to do so but the damage is below the compression making areas of the P&C.

 

[ZeroJunk]

If you have a little scratch or two left you will do more damage trying to get them all out than if you just left them.

That is true for a lot of things. How many widgets of all shapes and sizes have you ruined trying to make them perfect.

 

[RedneckChainsawRepair]

1 2 3 to easy for me. I like to do a quick crosshatching myself. Makes a difference in my mind.

Could be used after step 2, but look at difference after step 3. Just a quick turn both ways to crosshatch.

 

[trappermike]

If there is aluminum scoring on the cyl. remove it carefully with muriatic acid,not too long. then run a ball hone thru,only a few seconds is needed. Watch NHRA Top Fuel drag racing on TV sometime,a 10,000 HP nitro engine does a 3.7 second run at 330 mph (with 50 psi supercharger pressure!),is then cooked everytime,if they don't explode,(which is a spectacular fireball)then they just run a ball hone thru and stuff new pistons in(in 1 hour) and ready to go again,good enough for them,good enough for me. They show it in the pits between runs.You can see the ball hone being used.

 

[holeycow]

Those are not 2 strokes with ports and chrome lining are they?

 

[trappermike]

No not 2-strokes but the pistons and rings and bore must survive infinitely more pressure and seal. I only ever use ball hones on 2-strokes,but each to his own... And a ball hone does a nice job of smoothing port edges too.