6 x 30 cylinder price OUCH !!!!

[milkie62]

Called Northern Tool on a price for a 6x30 hydro cylinder for my splitter. Ouch was the price tag. I was quoted $1300.00 & change. I guess I can live with a 5x30 as an upgrade from my 4x24 cylinder. Hopefully speed will not be that much slower than what I now have.

 

[muddstopper]

Heres one about half that price. https://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydra...5-Double-Acting-Hydraulic-Cylinder-9-9518.axd
Since you want to go to a longer stroke and will have to do a lot of fab work anyways.
Going from a 4in bore to a 5in bore will cut down your speed by about 25% and a 6in bore will cut the speed by about 50%. You can make up some of that lost speed by buying a cyl with the biggest rod dia you can find. Also, if you have a 2 stage pump the larger cyl's will stay in the high flow pump mode longer and shift down to low flow mode less. Cycle time maynot be as slow as the math suggests if your splitting tough wood all the time, but the easy stuff will drive you batty waiting on the cyl. Are you planning on a multi split wedge. If not, I would question why you think you need a 6in bore cyl.

 

[Sandhill Crane]

If rod diameter is not listed how do you know what it is?

 

[Ryan'smilling]

"Upgrading" from a 4" to a 6" cylinder sounds like a way to break the rest of your splitter unless you're planning on some other serious upgrades.

 

[NSMaple1]

"Upgrading" from a 4" to a 6" cylinder sounds like a way to break the rest of your splitter unless you're planning on some other serious upgrades.

6" more stroke will also need some semi-serious mods.

Yes, speed will suffer.

 

[muddstopper]

If rod diameter is not listed how do you know what it is?

the one I listed says 3.5in. Cyl are usually listed as ie 4x24x1.75.or 4x24x2 The last number being the size of the rod.

Just so the OP knows, there is a very good chance that his control valve wont handle the return oil flow if he goes from a 4in bore to a 6in bore. Could have the same problem with his return oil filter. Might also be a problem with hyd tank capacity. There are so many things that would need modified to make the larger cyl work, I think I would just build a new splitter and sale the old one to finance it.

 

[rancher2]

milkie62
If your splitter was built around a 4 inch cylinder you probably don't want a 6 inch cylinder. I had two home built splitters one had a 4x24x2 cylinder the other had a 5x24x2.5 cylinder. Both were running 28 GPM two stage pumps. The difference in speed between the two was very noticeable. The one with the five inch cylinder was very over built splitter with a lot of extra channel iron past the wedge. The splitter with the five inch cylinder broke the piston and when it did it ruin the barrel too. That splitter became a firewood processor project. I decided to up the cylinder size so I bought a 6.5x30x4 new surplus cylinder cheap. It had been in storage so long the wiper seal was cracked so I rebuilt it before we used it. Installed new cylinder mounts and a new six way hyd adjustable wedge. Started in the beginning running one Kohler 40 HP engine with one pump for the saw one for the conveyor and a 28 GPM two stage for the splitter. You can do all the calculations on paper and think you can live with it but that jump in size on that cylinder was a killer. The return wasn't bad as the size of the rod was good and we used a dump valve. I still had the 20 HP motor that was left over from the splitter so I installed it also on firewood processor and run two motors moved the two stage to the 20 Hp and added another 15 Gpm single stage to the 40 HP. I run a auto cycle on the two stage pump and another valve on the single stage that kicks out at 700 psi. The cylinder had two inlet and outlet ports so it was no problem to pipe it that way. It cycles fast now. That six inch cylinder will split some wood. If the wood is real tough I lift the multi wedge up and just re split the pieces. I don't need to tear up wedges. I only run 15 to 20 cord a year so the gas cost isn't bad. Maybe some day when I am rich I will run a big diesel engine with big single stage pumps. Good luck with the project.

 

[milkie62]

Heres one about half that price. https://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydra...5-Double-Acting-Hydraulic-Cylinder-9-9518.axd
Since you want to go to a longer stroke and will have to do a lot of fab work anyways.
Going from a 4in bore to a 5in bore will cut down your speed by about 25% and a 6in bore will cut the speed by about 50%. You can make up some of that lost speed by buying a cyl with the biggest rod dia you can find. Also, if you have a 2 stage pump the larger cyl's will stay in the high flow pump mode longer and shift down to low flow mode less. Cycle time maynot be as slow as the math suggests if your splitting tough wood all the time, but the easy stuff will drive you batty waiting on the cyl. Are you planning on a multi split wedge. If not, I would question why you think you need a 6in bore cyl.

Yes, way to much in mods for the 6" . I think I can go with the 5 " though since I already have a long enough beam and it is already drilled for my cylinder stop. Plan on using a bushing on my 1" pins so I can use the hole in the tierod end. I more than likely will have to space everything up slightly or maybe not since I already have 1" of clearance under the 4" cylinder. I want to beable to use my 4 way wedge more other than just strictly straight grained pieces. I also want to up to 30" since I am trying to maximize the 24" plus pcs for my boiler. Logs get dumped every which way and sometimes my 24" estimate is off and won't fit the splitter and have to cut again. less cutting and less splitting. Even if it is way to slow, I can save the cylinder for the next build. Selling my splitter is out of the question since I built it from scratch with minimal tools and looks pretty nice IMO even with some short commings of no log lift, not far enough off the ground etc. A 25% reduction in upping to the 5" will get me into thinking auto valve now since I can walk away for the next piece. My baby has been working flawlessly for 29 yrs and even still have the original rubber flex coupling.

 

[muddstopper]

Not sure of how you plan on mounting a cyl that is 6 inches longer than the current cyl on a beam already set up for the shorter cyl. Also need to check the clearance between the cyl and the beam itself. If your current cyl is setting close to the beam, the extra dia of the bigger cyl might not clear. Looks like a lot of cutting and welding is going to be needed. Since you built your current splitter, I will assume you have the skill set to make the modifications, but suggest that finding a newer beam might be easier than modifying the old beam to fit. Also consider the bigger, longer cyl will have more force than the old cyl and you will probably see more flexing and twisting on the beam. I used a 6x6 hbeam on my splitter with a 5x24x2 cyl. I have the top flange plated as well as both sides of the web and I can still see the beam bow and twist on really hard splits.

 

[Sandhill Crane]

-TW-6 has a 5" x 24" x 3 1/2" cylinder. It will stall out on heavily knotted stuff before tearing the machine up. That should be considered a plus.
-For large rounds the PowerSplit or TimberDevil design seems more efficient with less physical handling of re-splits, plus smaller size cylinders, pumps and valves. I have owned a TW-6. I'd love to try a PowerSplit for a few hours, as that's the only way to know for sure.

 

[Del_]

I think it is important to note that unless you need to split wood that is over 24", that a 30" cylinder is just going to add to the time it takes to get the work done. I one had two identical splitters with 18hp motors, 5 inch diameter cylinders and 28 gpm two speed pumps. I never needed the extra 6 inches of cylinder and it was noticeably more time consuming to use the the 30". I eventually sold the 30" set up and have been running the 24" since 1990.

Of course if you need the extra length, then you need it.

 

[Ryan'smilling]

You can use stroke limiters to reduce unnecessary cycle time, though they aren't particularly cheap, especially for the bigger rods. I've been meaning to buy or make some. My splitter has a 5x36x2" cylinder. Wish the rod was bigger, but oh well. It's still pretty quick. I use the length for doing long splits for my maple syrup cooker, but I also use it for stove length splits. Usually I get a rhythm going and can reach over and knock it out of decent before it goes back too far, but it'd be nice if it did it on its own.

 

[muddstopper]

You dont have to buy expensive stroke limiters. drilling a few holes in the hbeam flange and bolting a stop to the beam will stop the return of the cyl. Just make sure you have your return detent set low enough that you dont rip the stop off the beam.

 

[Ryan'smilling]

You dont have to buy expensive stroke limiters. drilling a few holes in the hbeam flange and bolting a stop to the beam will stop the return of the cyl. Just make sure you have your return detent set low enough that you dont rip the stop off the beam.

I did think about that. I actually asked for the builder to make it that way, but he declined because he was concerned about the strength of the beam. If I drilled some holes and then bent the beam I'd be SOL, otherwise I think he'd stand behind it. My splitter has an auto cycle valve, so the return detent has to be set kinda high, otherwise it kicks out when the valve kicks out of the extend detent.

 

[muddstopper]

Use big bolts maybe. What pressure is the return detent set on

Edited to add. I was looking at new autocycle valves and it seems to have two adjustable reliefs. is the return pressure relief set the same as the extend pressure? If you can adjust the extend detent seperately from the retract detent, then bolts thru the hbeam for a stop shouldnt be a problem

 

[kevin j]

5 inch compared to 4 inch is not 25% slower. Diameter is 25% more, but area is a squared term of diameter, not a direct ratio, so it is (5/4) ^2.

It will be 1.56 as long on time, or .64 as fast on speed, depending on how you want to look at it.

Stroke limiters work nice in that you can take them off quickly instead of unbolting a stop. I have seen many splitters with a rod from the slider back to the valve handle that mechanically kicks the valve back. The stopper on that rod is adjusted with a knob or set screw.

Or you could have a hinged, flip down piece of steel or 2x4 wood that is a stopper. Flip it up out of the way for full stroke.

There is a youtube video of a guy who used stop collars, ripped the rod end off, and the dealer told him that is what caused it. Would not warranty it.BS. Hydr cylinders are designed for full force push or pull, and the threads and shoulder are designed for that force. He had a bad rod end or threads and the dealer scammed him, or was ignorant.

Stop collars can mechanically hit the seal area if they are not counterbored or relieved on the inside, or if the seal sticks out too much. Check that, but stop collars have been on agric cylinders for 60 years.

Personally, I’d look into the flipper idea, quicker to flip up out of the way.

 

[muddstopper]

Kevin, I didnt do the actual math, but the 5in cyl is also 6in longer than his current cyl. Actual cyl time will probably take closer to twice as long.

 

[Ryan'smilling]

Use big bolts maybe. What pressure is the return detent set on

Edited to add. I was looking at new autocycle valves and it seems to have two adjustable reliefs. is the return pressure relief set the same as the extend pressure? If you can adjust the extend detent seperately from the retract detent, then bolts thru the hbeam for a stop shouldnt be a problem

I'd have to check. Return detent is supposed to kick out at 200psi more than the extend detent. If it's set closer to the other figure, the push block will hit the wedge and knock both handles into neutral, stopping the ram at full extension.

 

[FlyingDutchman]

My dad and I like to burn wood in excess of 24" in our boilers.

Keep the 24" stroke on the cylinder and just move out your backstop or wedge to acommodate the length you want tot split, use a sideways log to force it the rest of the way through if you need to. Most of the time the log is split before the end of the stroke.

Longer cylinders make your splitter long and heavy and are stupid ass expensive. I rebuilt some old 28" cylinders for my splitter . Wish I had spring for new 24" ones, would have saved headaches. I think it would give us 32 something inches instead of 28". Half the time dad still cuts them too long. And we have to toss it back on the ground after a team lift and cut it anyways.

 

[muddstopper]

I made the mistake of not building my splitter where the pusher would go all the way to the wedge. I had a 4in bore cyl on hand and the measurement was 2 inches shorter than the 5in in bore cyl I was looking at to use. I went ahead and built the splitter with the 4in cyl and left enough room so I could later just pull the pins and install the 5in cyl. I later found a 5in cyl on sale and it was the same lenght as my current 4in cyl. This goof allows me to split 26in wood, but it doesnt split all the way. It isnt a real big problem as the next round pushes the first round the rest of the way thru the wedge and I cut my wood at 20in +/- lenghts anyway. I once added a piece of 2x4 tube to the pusher thinking that would take care of the hanging splits but that didnt work out either. The tube just squished flat. Once I get thru this winters splitting, I plan on a complete change on my wedge design and getting rid of that 2inches of space between the wedge and the pusher.