Low kickback vs. regular chain

[RiesePING]

Yeah I hear yah Philbert. I never said the chain itself was more unsafe (with all factors being equal). I'm just gonna agree with you and move on because I think there's a disconnect in tone and meaning when it comes to letters on a computer screen rather than speaking face to face with someone.

 

[Tenderfoot]

To be honest, and this is just my opinion, safety chain cuts perfectly fine. I was running some carlton semi chisel (my hands down, favorite chain) compared to some Hombre Despot cast of trilink chains and the trilink (also semi chisel) cut neck in neck by feeling as compared to the Carlton stuff up till about 10 or 12 in wood on the same saw.

I was impressed. Rakers were set to the same height and the chains were sharpened the same method (grinder then touch up on file). I will never turn down free chains and got the trilinks for free. If I am paying for chain I want the carlton stuff. Otherwise, run what ya brung till it wears out then 'upgrade'. Im no longer turning my nose up at the safety chain and will keep these in my rotation for the foreseeable future.

 

[jakethesnake]

I'd agree with that above no I won't buy much green label stuff but I have plenty of chain because it has either came with purchases /bars whatever Honestly the only thing I have against any of it is the extra stuff that has to be filed away when the chain gets worn down. Some of it is pretty good stuff though Any chain can and will cut very fast if you know how to make it work for you I really dislike vanguard and any of the "shark" fin stuff just way too much extra stuff in the way when the tooth gets short

 

[Amp4027]

Any pointers besides what I'm already doing?

The PS3 stihl safety chain supposedly cuts faster than the non-LK PS chain - something to do with the LK rakers taking up more of the kerf & clearing out chips better.

With a non-LK chain, I noticed the saw will build up more momentum - like say you are used to the kickback of a LK chain, the non-LK will kick about 2-3x higher (so ~4-6" at the 14" bar tip , instead of the normal/quick 1-2" jump with tophandle saws) than you are used to. You just reallllly gotta watch out for the dreaded (_) () type hidden logs or Y limbs. Pick up a Rapid Micro yellow chain if you need a Picco pitch or a Rapid Super if you need normal 3/8" and purposely try to get it to kickback (drunken plungecutting, twisting the bar mid-cut in a trunk, just getting the bartip to catch on a flat piece of a trunk, etc etc) to see if its right for you.

 

[Little Al]

I think you're taking my wording the wrong way. I started the sentence off with "For me", meaning this only pertains to me and my preferences. I totally agree with everything you wrote and think safety chains are a great thing for the people who need/want them. All I was trying to get across was that familiarity and having experience with something is usually more safe. I don't have much experience with safety chains so for me a full chisel chain is more predictable. I think we're on the same side of the fence here Philbert.

Not in all cases It is down to the thought process of the individual The term " Familiarity breeds contempt" has & will continue to cause accidents in most works situations that have a dangerous element, just because you have performed a task 100's/1000's of times without a problem doesn't mean a minute inattention during that task the dangerous element won't come & "bite you" as an example how many sawyers do you know with an incomplete set of fingers? "Sods Law" comes into it as well ie. the more times you do the task the bigger chance you have of getting caught out. Concentration is the be all to end all.

 

[Amp4027]

Concentration is the be all to end all.

Very true. Just wanted to add: Your brain cannot concentrate without oxygen. Take 5 quick deep breaths right before making any cuts and double check your attachments and tie-in's/knots.

 

[RiesePING]

Not in all cases It is down to the thought process of the individual The term " Familiarity breeds contempt" has & will continue to cause accidents in most works situations that have a dangerous element, just because you have performed a task 100's/1000's of times without a problem doesn't mean a minute inattention during that task the dangerous element won't come & "bite you" as an example how many sawyers do you know with an incomplete set of fingers? "Sods Law" comes into it as well ie. the more times you do the task the bigger chance you have of getting caught out. Concentration is the be all to end all.

AGAIN, I agree. It IS all down to the individual...which is why I've tried to make it crystal clear that this was my situation and mine alone. It seems like you're painting me as this dude who is telling the OP to forget everything that goes along with being a safe user of a chainsaw and that he should run into the forest naked and blindfolded, duct tape the throttle wide open, and to cut with the saw upside down.

Or maybe I did a really ****** job in trying to explain myself and I should chill out and try again next time.

 

[Little Al]

AGAIN, I agree. It IS all down to the individual...which is why I've tried to make it crystal clear that this was my situation and mine alone. It seems like you're painting me as this dude who is telling the OP to forget everything that goes along with being a safe user of a chainsaw and that he should run into the forest naked and blindfolded, duct tape the throttle wide open, and to cut with the saw upside down.

Or maybe I did a really ****** job in trying to explain myself and I should chill out and try again next time.

I was in no way having a dig at you. I think that you took my post in an incorrect way You stated that you were FAMILIAR with your particular set up & I was pointing out that no matter how familiar you are with a procedure if it is a danger to the operator the tinyest inattention could be a serious problem hence the concentration at all times Having been into chainsaws since the early1960's & involved in a pro logging set up for the last 28 years or so I v'e seen a fair few "nastys" in that time period & to help in any way I can to prevent more has always been my aim. Pillbert seemed to also to not fully understand your earlier post? The overriding problem with logging/chainsaws a " nasty" is usually life changing in some way & no matter what saw /chain type you are using if you get it wrong it will do you Damage

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

How big a saw would you consider a "small, lightweight saw"?

70cc

 

[JanThorCro]

Because kickback is usually associated with the upper portion of the bar tip, low kickback chains are specifically designed to not bite deeply there, so these bars and chains do not bore cut as well-

I have to disagree Philbert.

My anti-kickback chains are perfect for bore-cutting. It's the way that one yellow linked chain I own, likes to jump during the plunge that has relegated it to the bottom of my box of supplies.

My green linked anti-kickback chains bore cut like a dream. Easy to start the plunge and easy to drive it through the tree. Someone, somewhere wrote how their GOL instructor had talked against using the anti-kickback chain. As an instructor myself, my first job is to make my students (homeowners & volunteers) as safe as possible.

Nor room for ego, pride or the need to get it done quick.

We spend our time felling, limbing and bucking mostly dead trees along our rail trails. Safety is paramount.

Scott

 

[Philbert]

Low kickback chain (those with tie strap or drive link 'bumpers') will bore cut, but not as aggressively as standard chain, since the bumpers are specifically designed to fill in the spaces between cutters when they travel around the nose.



This limits the depth penetration and chip clearing ability at the nose.

I primarily use low/ reduced kickback chain, and I bore cut with it, but it is noticeably slower when boring through larger diameter wood, after the initial entry kickback risk has passed.

Philbert

 

[Ted Jenkins]

I pretty much have figured ways to avoid bore cutting. Most of my work is way more production type cutting. I do not deal with limbs and so on. I walk up to logs have them marked cut go on to the next. Some times my helper will stack limbs in a pile and I cut them in half. Most situations are not prone for kickback so I never use low kickback chain. At this moment I will not let my helper get into places where he is likely to get in to difficult kickback situation.

Philbert definitely has a point about using low kickback chain in that it would be more difficult to plunge. And Reise's point is he will do what he thinks to keep those he is working with safe. No body tells me what is safe and not safe as I would not try to tell others how to perform certain jobs safely. When I work with my helper there are certain things that I have determined he should not do. Last week he was walking below a 50'' log on a steep hill. He knows that is forbidden. When he he has plenty of experience he can do cartwheels if he wants, but until then I draw the lines. They must figure out what works for them. Thanks

 

[sb47]

I mainly buck felled logs and I don't like the LK chains. I prefer the yellow over the green, all day long.
They cut faster and are easy to sharpen and last twice as long. Chatter and bucking and kickback are mostly caused be the rakers being to low. I'll take one yellow chain over 10 free green chains any day of the week.
I don't see any kickback difference with ether one. But the yellow stays sharper longer and are faster to sharpen and last longer then any green chain I have used.
I keep a death grip on my saw no mater what chain I use and treat the bar and chain like the muzzle of a firearm. Never and I mean never let the bar/chain come anywhere near anything you don't want to kill.
Most people make the mistake at the bottom of a cut and let the weight of the saw drop down when it breaks free of the cut. That's a big NO NO. You have to short stop the saw when it breaks through the cut and don't let the weight of the saw to allow you to let the bar drop free from the cut. I also tip cut with yellow chains with no issues, just remember to keep the top 1/3 of the tip out of the cut and only cut with the bottom 1/4 of the tip.
Lastly "throttle control" I see a lot of people that cut wide open all the time. It's not nessary to run a saw wide open all the time. I find the half throttle will cut just as fast as full throttle will.
It's kind like spinning your tires on a wet road. You can spin them as fast as you want but all your doing is spinning tires, your not getting any better traction.
When you cut a log, you will find a sweet spot where the angle of the cut gets you the best bite in the wood and it will cut faster once you find that sweet spot.

 

[Philbert]

But the yellow stays sharper longer and are faster to sharpen and last longer then any green chain I have used.

The cutters are exactly the same (except for the bottom chain in the photo above). Only difference is assembly with bumpers in the sequence.

Semi-chisel versus full-chisel cutters could be different.

Philbert

 

[Westboastfaller]

O for Chr*st sakes.. It's colour by numbers now. I can't even get in the conversation

 

[Little Al]

O for Chr*st sakes.. It's colour by numbers now. I can't even get in the conversation

Come to our part of the world we don't have Chainsaw Chains painting by #'s on you know who's products It's b****y hard work trying to work out whats what As an aside regular or LK will make a equal nasty mess if you get it wrong