Stihl Chain Pitch and Gauge - Pros/Cons

[HerbHammer]

I've got a good understanding of the pros/cons of chain pitch and gauge in general, but I'm confused as to the rhyme or reason of Stihl recommending/setting up certain combinations for certain saws.

For example, I've got a 261c that came with a 20" bar in .325 pitch and .063 gauge. I've heard other people got their 261's with 3/8 pitch, in both .050 and .063 gauge.

I recently picked up a new 661c, and it came with a 28" bar in 3/8 and .050. Dealer said they don't ever see them set up in .063 unless bar length is 36" or longer...

Why all the different combinations, and are there opinions on whats best to standardize on? I guess from my perspective I don't mind the smaller saws like the 261 running .325 pitch for smoother cutting, and gauge is interchangeable, and it makes sense for bigger saws to run 3/8 pitch. But it seems odd for a 50cc saw and 18-20" bar to run a bigger gauge than a 90cc saw with a 28" bar.

Thoughts?

 

[HarleyT]

It really doesn't matter at all.
Why the saw makers insist on the .058 and .063 gauge options on the .325 chains is a mystery.
They just want to be a huge pain in the arse I guess...

 

[Westboastfaller]

I recently picked up a new 661c, and it came with a 28" bar in 3/8 and .050. Dealer said they don't ever see them set up in .063 unless bar length is 36" or longer...

This is close to correct to all my experience im Canada. Some of Oregon bars at 33' ( for Hudqvana ) are 58 and 63. Stihl lite bars for husky are at 32" and 36" are .063" to my knowledge. Most Fallers in the interior on fires or pipe line, Seismic or beetle control, likely don't even know .063" exists. That would be 80% of the 'Faller'

We always had different configurations out west Canada anyway.. than some of the united states. Husqvarna was always .058" with small bars and Stihl always .050" That is/was standard? I remember something about Husky using 0.50" in the last 5 yrs. IDK? I remember when Tamarack tree came out to BC from NY and sent four brand new bucket trucks and chipers. They had a pile of 346 slashing saws with .050"? Never seen it before and never seen it since. One 385 with a 'pre ground' square. Funny choice of chain for a tree service company?

If the saw comes with different configuration (3/8 or either .325 then you pick what you want when you buy the saw.
Same applys with bar and chain.

 

[Franny K]

But it seems odd for a 50cc saw and 18-20" bar to run a bigger gauge than a 90cc saw with a 28" bar.

That is worthy of some discussion I suppose. It is not as extreme as it would appear at first, only the part of the drive links that fit into the bar and the sprockets is really thinner. The pins that the pivoting action are on and the pins riveted into the tie straps will be larger in the 3/8 chain so what could be considered the working load limit and the ultimate breaking strength will be more for the 3/8 chain. The spinner anvil choice at least for Oregon is small one .325 and down.

 

[Ryan'smilling]

I strongly believe that the sole reason for the .325x.063 setup that many Stihl saws are sent out the door with is to make it so the customer has to come back to a stihl dealer for chains. Yes, they can be bought online from other makers, but 9 times out of 10, Harry homeowner is just gonna strike out at home Depot and head back to the stihl dealer.

 

[Philbert]

But it seems odd for a 50cc saw and 18-20" bar to run a bigger gauge than a 90cc saw with a 28" bar.

I had the same thoughts: larger pitch chain should have thicker gauge drive links. Never got a good answer why STIHL saws come like they do.

Speculation is that saw companies want you to come back to them for replacement chains. STIHL uses a lot of 0.063 gauge chain. Husqvarna uses a lot of 0.058 gauge chain. ECHO likes to use non-standard drive link counts in their loops. But that does not explain the 0.050 gauge chain on 28" bars.

You can switch over to any set up you want (some guys like to run all saws with the same chain, and buy in bulk), but you will be disappointed if you try to run into a STIHL dealer and buy a ready made loop.

(@Ryan'smilling typed some of this faster than me)

Philbert

 

[Ryan'smilling]

I had the same thoughts: larger pitch chain should have thicker gauge drive links. Never got a good answer why STIHL saws come like they do.

Speculation is that saw companies want you to come back to them for replacement chains. STIHL uses a lot of 0.063 gauge chain. Husqvarna uses a lot of 0.058 gauge chain. ECHO likes to use non-standard drive link counts in their loops. But that does not explain the 0.050 gauge chain on 28" bars.

You can switch over to any set up you want (some guys like to run all saws with the same chain, and buy in bulk), but you will be disappointed if you try to run into a STIHL dealer and buy a ready made loop.

(@Ryan'smilling typed some of this faster than me)

Philbert

I'd sure like to find a 3003 mount, aka d025 bar in .325x.050 66dl. I'd really like to be able to swap loops between my 261 and husky 346/350 saws. No luck yet, but I suppose I haven't looked under every rock.

That reminds me actually: did you guys hear they're testing marijuana on seabirds now??







They're leaving no tern unstoned.

 

[full chizel]

I believe Philbert is right on. Its all marketing and they want you to come back and buy their chains.

 

[HerbHammer]

Fascinating, I never thought about dealers putting an .063 chain on a saw so that you had to buy that unique chain from them...

That being said, my dealer didn't really even know why you'd want a .063 chain when I talked to him about the 661, so I doubt their strategy was actively to sell smaller saws with odd chain. I suspect Stihl corporate is the one doing the funny combinations.

 

[pavel408]

Gauge .063 is special only for Stihl - just because of marketing reasons, I agree.

Stihl in Europe offers only following pitch-gauge combinations: 3/8P-.043 3/8P-.050 .325-.063 3/8-.063 .404-.063
I guess Stihl B/C with gauge .050 may be specific for North America?

The other vendors list different options: 1/4-.050 .325-.050 .325-.058 3/8-.043 3/8-.050 3/8-.058

 

[Dph1256]

.063 oils better then 0.050. I think Stihl is try to help their farm/rancher saw with their stingy oilers handle longer bars. By longer bars I mean 20". I feel the oiler on my 271 is maxed out with a 18" bar.

 

[HarleyT]

.063 oils better then 0.050. I think Stihl is try to help their farm/rancher saw with their stingy oilers handle longer bars. By longer bars I mean 20". I feel the oiler on my 271 is maxed out with a 18" bar.

So, does this theory only apply to the Stihl chains with the hole in the drive link?

 

[rd35]

We need to be looking at how chain gets manufactured......and what materials are used when manufacturing chain. Do a google search for sheet metal gauge thickness. Then look at the sheet stainless steel chart....specifically look at both 16 gauge and 18 gauge metal thicknesses! 16 gauge stainless is .0625 thick. 18 gauge is .050 thick. Low grade (400 series) stainless steel is not totally stainless nor is it completely rust proof....but it does have better wear qualities. I believe the heavier (16) gauge stainless steel is probably used for Stihl's drive links since the wear (pivot) points on the rivets and the back edge of the link itself are the two highest stress wear locations in a chain. I'm betting that Stihl is so highly convinced of the importance of using the thicker gauge base metal on their drive links that they actually use it on their .050 chains in lieu of the 18 gauge by machining down the 16 gauge to a thickness of .050 on the portion of the link that runs in the bar groove. (Take a close look at a Stihl 3/8 .050 (not LP) chain and you can see where the drive link thickness has been reduced) This way the rivets still reap the advantage of the thicker material for reducing stress and increasing pivot life. I may be wrong about all of this....but it sure looks to me like this is all about base metal availability and standard sheet metal thicknesses!

 

[Philbert]

We need to be looking at how chain gets manufactured...... I may be wrong about all of this....but it sure looks to me like this is all about base metal availability and standard sheet metal thicknesses!

STIHL, Oregon, etc. are big enough to spec the steel they order: can always be rolled to a different thickness.

Plus, that does not explain why they mate .325 pitch with .063 gauge drive links and 3/8 pitch with 0.050 - especially when they swage the thicker drive links down to make the 0.050 gauge.

Philbert

 

[CR888]

Chain gauge IME is very much a regional thing. Where I am you could go to 30 Stihl dealers and not find a loop of full size 3/8 chain in 050. Every saw sold here that don't use Picco gets 063 gauge whether its .325, 3/8 or .404. I prefer 063, wood chips get jammed in the rails/sprocket tips up in full size 050 bars. But conditions dictate the 'best' setup, throughout the US 050 works well without the issues I see. I also like a wider drive tang on powerful saws cutting hardwoods they hold up better & deliver oil well.

 

[HerbHammer]

Chain gauge IME is very much a regional thing. Where I am you could go to 30 Stihl dealers and not find a loop of full size 3/8 chain in 050. Every saw sold here that don't use Picco gets 063 gauge whether its .325, 3/8 or .404. I prefer 063, wood chips get jammed in the rails/sprocket tips up in full size 050 bars. But conditions dictate the 'best' setup, throughout the US 050 works well without the issues I see. I also like a wider drive tang on powerful saws cutting hardwoods they hold up better & deliver oil well.

Thats an interesting standard. I agree .063 sounds good, more oil to the chain. I just wish it was a standard here instead of interchangeable with .050...

 

[sb47]

I converted all my saws, 290,362,261c to all run the same bar and chains. No more guessing what file to use and all my chains fit all my saws. It fixes all the confusion.
I did have an issue with my new 261c running a 063 when i noodled with the grain, the chips would bind up in the grove in the chain and grove and binding up the chain till it would stall. I switched to 0.50 and no more issued.

 

[c5rulz]

I strongly believe that the sole reason for the .325x.063 setup that many Stihl saws are sent out the door with is to make it so the customer has to come back to a stihl dealer for chains. Yes, they can be bought online from other makers, but 9 times out of 10, Harry homeowner is just gonna strike out at home Depot and head back to the stihl dealer.

Absolutely, can't agree more. Running 63 gauge with ..325 is just another way the Stihl dealer will "steal" from you.

 

[c5rulz]

I've heard for years the old adage of, "63 gauge delivers oil better". Don't know if that is true.

Gauge is a regional thing. Years ago when making the choice of 50 or 58 I went with 50 because it was supposed to be more standard. Since then I missed out on many unbelievable deals on 58 gauge parts such as $100 rolls of Oregon chisel chain and Total bars.

 

[Philbert]

I missed out on many unbelievable deals on 58 gauge parts such as $100 rolls of Oregon chisel chain and Total bars.

Depends on how much fussing you are willing to put up with.

On your own saw(s) it might be worth buying a special bar to take advantage of 'a deal' on some non-standard chains, or vice-versa. Hard to do this with a crew.

Same thing with guide bar adaptors.

@sb47 mentions the other perspective of minimizing variation: one size to fit all.

Philbert