Photos please, I don't have the ability to look at a P series saw.
TIA
Lou
TIA
Lou
Pioneer chainsaws
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There is definitely an offset on my cap and I was actually wondering if the chain retainer was supposed to be keeping something else secure in the vent hole -- like maybe a small duck bill valve. I'm almost thinking about trimming one down small enough to fit and call it a real vent.
Any tips on the fuel cap vent? It's totally back assward from everything I know about tank venting and I don't see any way to invert the function so it allows air in but not out like a typical one-way vent valve.
Yeah..., the fuel and oil caps leak! LOL
My fuel cap has many fewer pieces, the umbrella-shaped valve faces into the tank (the handle to the outside), and there is a metal keeper below it.
Before you destroy an oil cap please try tightening the screw some and see if it leaks less.
If the tank is not airtight that may be the problem.
Jerry, we need you, and I'd like to hear your thoughts.
Even with my fuel cap in pieces, I don't recall it leaking. A small amount of moisture near the vent hole perhaps, but I do not remember any drips or a stream of fuel. I'll grant you that was a very long time back and my memory has a few holes these days.
I removed the metal keeper and took a picture of my fuel cap. I wish it was clearer but that's it.
Before you destroy an oil cap please try tightening the screw some and see if it leaks less.
If the tank is not airtight that may be the problem.
Jerry, we need you, and I'd like to hear your thoughts.
Even with my fuel cap in pieces, I don't recall it leaking. A small amount of moisture near the vent hole perhaps, but I do not remember any drips or a stream of fuel. I'll grant you that was a very long time back and my memory has a few holes these days.
I removed the metal keeper and took a picture of my fuel cap. I wish it was clearer but that's it.
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Yours would appear to have a standard pink umbrella valve situated in there somehow. (I included one in the pic purely for illustration purposes.) Mine is a plastic mechanical valve with an 'O' ring and a spring to seal it and can only fit in the cap one way..., which has it venting outward allowing air (and fuel) to also vent/leak out unless outside air pressure is significantly higher than tank pressure. It allows no air back in to account for fuel volume loss and the associated vacuum created like a normal tank vent does. Makes no sense whatsoever. And we're actually talking about tank pressure equalization here anyway, not actual venting, per se.
I think you guys know of @Hoggwood (Cory) on here. He's done some innovative things.
I don't have the the the write up but here's what he did.
Poge, you're good at digging up old posts here.
He used a pen refill and the little brad through the cap vent hole was to hold it in place while te adhesive (?) cured
Good memory! And thanks. I have those pics in my archives, too. And don't think I haven't considered that approach already. I'm not quite there yet since I still have all of the original components. Just trying to get my head around why the vent is going the wrong way in this cap. Either there's a damned good reason that I'm completely missing or something else isn't right. The tank holds zero pressure. Not even a little. Maybe Cory can provide some enlightenment. Would also be interested in how well such a superb piece of redneckery has held up over time. Could be a solution for my oil cap issue as well.
I can understand mine, when a vacuum is created in the tank the umbrella flexes (opens into the tank) and allows air to enter until the vacuum is relieved.
The hole in the fuel tank cap on my FarmSaw is about the same size as the oil tank cap hole.
In the order, it goes together left to right. The umbrella stem is visible on the upper left of the white plastic piece it's installed in. The stem goes toward the cap. The dark round piece is a thin piece of foam and sits over the breather hole in the cap. You can't see it but there is a small dimple in the foam where the umbrella stem has been resting.
Looking at yours I think the small centerpiece can float and should float toward the retainer. That would work like my umbrella. I think the upper picture is correct. A vacuum in the tank will cause the small center to move toward the tank and relieve the vacuum, once relieved the o-ring will pull it back into the resting position. I'd install the loose o-ring between the cap and the light-colored piece.
The one fossil posted is by far the easiest to understand. Thanks. One caution; make certain the pen refill is not affected by fuel. Try to write over a wet spot on a sheet of paper. If it won't it's oil-based ink and the refill won't be affected by fuel. I used a Papermate pen when I worked in a service station and had a hell of a time writing down the pump total counter readings when it rained. That was a very long time ago (55 years) and Papermate may have changed the ink base since then.
One last thought; if the tank is not airtight, operation of the caps is a moot point! Take a small jar and fill it half full of water, then punch a small hole in the screw cap. Lay it on its side (hole down) hang it upside down, do whatever you like short of shaking it like a salt shaker. It won't leak (or only a very small amount) as long as the hole is below the waterline.
Punch a second small hole in the cap some distance away and it will leak! Even if both holes are below the waterline.
The hole in the fuel tank cap on my FarmSaw is about the same size as the oil tank cap hole.
In the order, it goes together left to right. The umbrella stem is visible on the upper left of the white plastic piece it's installed in. The stem goes toward the cap. The dark round piece is a thin piece of foam and sits over the breather hole in the cap. You can't see it but there is a small dimple in the foam where the umbrella stem has been resting.
Looking at yours I think the small centerpiece can float and should float toward the retainer. That would work like my umbrella. I think the upper picture is correct. A vacuum in the tank will cause the small center to move toward the tank and relieve the vacuum, once relieved the o-ring will pull it back into the resting position. I'd install the loose o-ring between the cap and the light-colored piece.
The one fossil posted is by far the easiest to understand. Thanks. One caution; make certain the pen refill is not affected by fuel. Try to write over a wet spot on a sheet of paper. If it won't it's oil-based ink and the refill won't be affected by fuel. I used a Papermate pen when I worked in a service station and had a hell of a time writing down the pump total counter readings when it rained. That was a very long time ago (55 years) and Papermate may have changed the ink base since then.
One last thought; if the tank is not airtight, operation of the caps is a moot point! Take a small jar and fill it half full of water, then punch a small hole in the screw cap. Lay it on its side (hole down) hang it upside down, do whatever you like short of shaking it like a salt shaker. It won't leak (or only a very small amount) as long as the hole is below the waterline.
Punch a second small hole in the cap some distance away and it will leak! Even if both holes are below the waterline.
Found it. Updated version from Cory.
https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/pioneer-chainsaws.70698/page-555#post-6256984
https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/pioneer-chainsaws.70698/page-555#post-6256984
Now bookmarked. Thanks.
The piece itself needs to be pointing toward the top of the cap to fit and can't simply be reversed. Otherwise the retainer won't fit. The center floating post is spring loaded under fairly light tension. If it is somehow assembled incorrectly I can't figure out for the life of me how to disassemble it to possibly flip the post around and change the spring location to reverse the direction of the valve. There's gotta be a way and someone has gotta know how to do it. I may have even had it apart originally and could well be responsible for it being like it is now. May have pics somewhere, but that's needle in haystack territory.
The piece itself needs to be pointing toward the top of the cap to fit and can't simply be reversed. Otherwise the retainer won't fit. The center floating post is spring loaded under fairly light tension. If it is somehow assembled incorrectly I can't figure out for the life of me how to disassemble it to possibly flip the post around and change the spring location to reverse the direction of the valve. There's gotta be a way and someone has gotta know how to do it. I may have even had it apart originally and could well be responsible for it being like it is now. May have pics somewhere, but that's needle in haystack territory.
p61 western
ArboristSite Guru
Here's a close up pic of the inside of one of my oil caps without the chain, and this one doesn't leak.
Thank you, sir. That's a larger sintered plug than the one in my cap and mine appears to also be cocked sideways a bit. Not sure I have a small enough pic or drill bit to pop it out to try re-seating it. Guess I'll hafta figure something out.
And yay! I did figure out how to get the valve apart! If it was a snake it woulda bit me. Only thing holding it all together was the damned 'O' ring. I still can't figure out how to put it back together in a way that would reverse the valve, though. I'll clean it up and stare at it for awhile and hope someone else knows the sequence. LOL
And yay! I did figure out how to get the valve apart! If it was a snake it woulda bit me. Only thing holding it all together was the damned 'O' ring. I still can't figure out how to put it back together in a way that would reverse the valve, though. I'll clean it up and stare at it for awhile and hope someone else knows the sequence. LOL
p61 western
ArboristSite Guru
I will dig through my stuff. I thought I had some fuel cap parts. Hopefully you can fix your oil cap, but if not they are a lot more common then the fuel caps.
@ PogoInTheWoods; IMO the end with the small dimple (opposite the small o-ring) goes into the tank (as it is pictured in your original fuel cap photo). Any vacuum created in the fuel tank overpowers the spring, once the vacuum is alleviated the spring closes the vent again. just like my umbrella.
Who lives close to Seattle with one of those fuel caps? I need to touch, feel, experiment!
The oil cap I don't get! I did not see any course foam in my oil cap and covering the hole below the screw stopped all air from transferring. Be warned, TSC bar oil doesn't taste good! It is possible the difference in the ages of our oil caps has changed how things are done.
Who lives close to Seattle with one of those fuel caps? I need to touch, feel, experiment!
The oil cap I don't get! I did not see any course foam in my oil cap and covering the hole below the screw stopped all air from transferring. Be warned, TSC bar oil doesn't taste good! It is possible the difference in the ages of our oil caps has changed how things are done.
The spring already pulls the vent closed from the tank side. Would take tank pressure (or fuel) to open it. That's the dilemma. I can't see any other way for it to go together. Hell, maybe that's how it's supposed to be. At this point I'm just pissin' up a rope with it. No clue.
I think the oil cap just needs a new brass plug. A grub screw may even work. But as mentioned, oil caps are a lot easier to find than fuel caps.
I think the oil cap just needs a new brass plug. A grub screw may even work. But as mentioned, oil caps are a lot easier to find than fuel caps.
Can you compress the spring and install the small o-ring on the opposite end (tank side)?
No seat for the spring to establish tension in that direction.
Take the smaller diameter base and put it under the larger diameter base as they are pictured just above.
Take the rounded end of the piece with the spring on it and insert it into the center of the smaller diameter bottom. Use a screwdriver, drill bit or something to push the rounded end up through the large-diameter base, hold it compressed and install the o-ring on the domed end of the piece with the spring installed after it extends through the center of the tapered end of the large-diameter base (you should not see the spring).
The spring should now pull the small o-ring down into the large-diameter part (tapered seat for the o-ring) and hold the small-diameter and large-diameter pieces together.
I think the large o-ring will fit below the small-diameter piece.
Install the retainer and the cap should work.
I still want someone in the Seattle area to let me touch, feel, experiment with this fuel cap.
Take the rounded end of the piece with the spring on it and insert it into the center of the smaller diameter bottom. Use a screwdriver, drill bit or something to push the rounded end up through the large-diameter base, hold it compressed and install the o-ring on the domed end of the piece with the spring installed after it extends through the center of the tapered end of the large-diameter base (you should not see the spring).
The spring should now pull the small o-ring down into the large-diameter part (tapered seat for the o-ring) and hold the small-diameter and large-diameter pieces together.
I think the large o-ring will fit below the small-diameter piece.
Install the retainer and the cap should work.
I still want someone in the Seattle area to let me touch, feel, experiment with this fuel cap.
That's exactly how it works now and would be fine if the stem end of the valve faced the tank instead of the top of the cap. (See post 14084 again.) Don't know how many more ways I can say "it vents in the wrong direction". LOL
I'm pretty sure my fuel cap has all the parts except the retainer and chain. But if you happen to have a valve assembly like the one in my cap I'd be most interested in how yours goes together!
I'm pretty sure my fuel cap has all the parts except the retainer and chain. But if you happen to have a valve assembly like the one in my cap I'd be most interested in how yours goes together!
I opted for a grub screw solution for the oil cap vent. Left the plug in place also. No more leak and should still be able to breath around the threads somewhat. Will hafta wait and see if it affects the oil flow.
Watch the bar and chain. If it cannot get any air it may not oil properly.
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