Glad I didn't (and don't) have to carry those!
Philbert
Philbert
Chainsaws and fire fighters
- Thread starter sbhooper
- Start date
Help Support Arborist Forum:
There should be no need for farmers and homeowners to pay for specialized features. Stihl's "R" (rescue) series incorporates features not found on the usual production models, such as full wrap handles, "D" shaped starter handles, and oversized sprocket covers (to clear chips better). These saws are the ones used by those (thank you all) who put themselves in perilous areas to protect farmers and homeowners. A better solution to the fueling problem could be incorporated into these saws only, without raising the price of regular production models. If the problem is as urgent as presented, Stihl should address it seriously or risk losing out on a sizeable market.
InfiniteJest
ArboristSite Operative
We are talking about fire watchers here.... not day in, day out timber fallers.
Go ahead and light me up. I did one season on fire and I'm still ashamed of it.
Not hiding behind the internet, PM for my address if you've got a bone to pick, not an issue.
Go ahead and light me up. I did one season on fire and I'm still ashamed of it.
Not hiding behind the internet, PM for my address if you've got a bone to pick, not an issue.
Liability laws would not allow that - one non-firefighter gets geysered and the plaintiff's lawyer shows that the company already had a solution. Plus, the cost for any improved venting 'solution' would probably be pennies per saw in volume.
Philbert
I have had over a dozen stihl saws and never had the geyser issue. If you lay the saw sideways and let the fuel settle before you pop the cap it wont spew fuel. I think people are not getting the saw level and getting in a hurry opening the cap before the fuel settles away from the cap.
NIFC solved the issue of geysering...
https://www.nifc.gov/nicc/logistics/cachememo/CM-17-2_Fuel_Geysering_labeling.pdf
https://www.nifc.gov/nicc/logistics/cachememo/CM-17-2_Fuel_Geysering_labeling.pdf
Can't find a more complete incident report...but in fall of 2016 there was a relatively small fire in western North Carolina that became large when an attempt was made to fill a Stihl backpack blower while still on the firefighter's back (by another person, not filling it himself!). Fuel spewed out, caught the firefighter, blower and fuel can on fire. (he was OK!). As I recall can was kicked away, but went across the fire line which created a larger incident than it would have been. Not saying it was or wasn't a Stihl problem...but just a real incident that caused real problems. Given the circumstances, may have happened to any other brand???
In 2017 they talked about this incident during the Red Card renewal training - I remember that, but not other details.
In 2017 they talked about this incident during the Red Card renewal training - I remember that, but not other details.
Brent Nowell
Addicted to ArboristSite
Good point, however it could be done. To vent a particular pressure you could use a tmp style of valve. Same thing that hot water tanks use except this one would be just pressure activated. You could also make a float valve that blocks off anything if it is not in the standard flat position.
I think the hardest thing would be to make a float valve that works with vibrations from a chainsaw!!
Good point, Philbert. The other features of the R series are not safety related.
With all this talk about venting fuel vapor... I have no interest in flammable & explosive fuel vapors coming from the tank as I’m handling a burning snag. Even if it is a one way check valve.
The other thing is that if you vent those vapors the pressure in the tank decreases and then more fuel is then liable to flash off because of it and you’re caught in a positive feedback loop.
The other thing is that if you vent those vapors the pressure in the tank decreases and then more fuel is then liable to flash off because of it and you’re caught in a positive feedback loop.
Venting would be unsafe if done automatically while the saw was running. It would have to be done before opening the cap at refueling. The vent line would have to be above the fuel level somehow (assuming the saw is on it's side for refueling) with some sort of one-way valve. If vented manually, it could easily be be inadvertently omitted in a stressful situation. If linked to the opening of the fuel cap, it would have to have a detent like in a radiator cap. Either way it doesn't sound simple or inexpensive to incorporate.
RandyMac
Stiff Member
If you were a nozzle jockey, I understand your shame.
The real action is with the handline crews, up close and personal.
I didn't do hoses, didn't do mop up, 90% was with a saw, most of that was with a big saw, cut a lot of 'interesting' stuff.
My last seasons, during the '76-78 drought, I was lead on a 32 man cutting crew, 8 of us were on saws, 8 were swampers, the other half cut the line, we could go through anything at a walking pace.
In some ways, fighting fires made falling old growth seem tame. Watching a crown fire in heavy timber at close range will make you believe it was God's hand at work.
sbhooper
Addicted to ArboristSite
You obviously did not do much on the fire line. I don't know how you could be ashamed of being a wild land fire fighter. I think you were probably one of those people that got the whole team in trouble, or you would not be ashamed. Incredibly stupid statement. These guys are not "fire watchers" , as you put it. They are fighting fire in terrain that sometimes is hands and knees steep, and carrying saws and fuel.
sbhooper
Addicted to ArboristSite
Huskybill
Addicted to ArboristSite
I don’t know much about fire fighters in forest fire. It takes a hell of a man or woman smokejumper to fight forest fires my hats off to them. I’m surprised it’s not listed higher on the most dangerous jobs. The wind can change and claim lives at anytime.
I fought a fire when a 1,000amp electrical box shorted out while test running a machine. My co worker froze right near the bright yellow orange ball. Me and another co worker pulled him out of there. Them we contained the 100 yo oil soaked oak wood floor. If the few of us didn’t help we’d be toasting hotdogs for a month. This shop was many acres large. Full of oil soaked oak flooring.
I fought a fire when a 1,000amp electrical box shorted out while test running a machine. My co worker froze right near the bright yellow orange ball. Me and another co worker pulled him out of there. Them we contained the 100 yo oil soaked oak wood floor. If the few of us didn’t help we’d be toasting hotdogs for a month. This shop was many acres large. Full of oil soaked oak flooring.
sbhooper
Addicted to ArboristSite
I never thought too much about it, until my kid got into it. Those guys are tough bastards! My kid was in some of the worst combat in Iraq, during the surge. He really needed this, to get back into a combat-type setting. His crew is disciplined and extremely tough. They go days on end with very little sleep and just keep forging ahead. They do not get nearly the accolades that urban fire fighters get and they deserve that and more. I understand a lot of what he is doing, because I work with a group that does controlled burns in the hills south of me. It makes it pretty easy to talk about what he is doing.
After fighting fire south of Salt Lake, for most of three days, they loaded up and now are in northern California. It is fun to get messages and pictures from him.
A have supported Husqvarna most all my adult life but their reps have done bad business, there it be some dealerships or regional sale rep and certainly them themselves.
Example with hot start issues with the/some 562's and I believe some of the 550's were problematic also.
They came up with a air filter cap with a hole in it eventually. I know someone on here that bought one. [YES! he had to buy one after many trips back to the dealer] Husqvarna should have gave the memo out to all that filed for a warranty. Plain and simply. Many people still are having the issue and aren't any wiser. I don't doubt that there are a lot of dealers that aren't wise to it either.
A buddy of mine would do personal port work for a handful of Certified Utility Arborists (CUA's) in Vancouver's lower mainland and the Fraser valley.
They would bring him 8-10 carcasses of 365 slashing saws for trade.
They worked for Davey tree or Asplunha.
You are talking the biggest tree company in the world and the biggest utility company in the world.
Short of the story... Asplunha had three new 365's go down to top end failure.
The dealer pretty much flat out put the finger on them and said they were straight gassed. They had 6-8 slashers pulling gas out of the same supply.
The dealer wasn't hearing of it.
Can't remember the fine details of what my buddy said other than it should have been warrantee work as worked on the saws.
I would think with an account like Asplunha then you fix it anyway without argument. I am sure there are lots of times they don't come knocking when things could have been warrantied?
I know I never did one single time.
I have contributed to the problem because I ***** to the wrong people about quality going to **** with chokes and on/off switches and trigger locks. I have what I need on hand and replace it on the hill. I have replaced 2 switches and a trigger lock in the first week with a 372 and snapped the choke off the next week. All in reg temperature.
That wasn't the case in my first 10 yrs with the 371//372
I am pretty sure manufacturers fueling procedures are fueling 10ft (3m) away from main fuel cash and a 10 minute wait on a hot saw.
Unless you see a trend in injury or death that they can't defend as we see from time to time with automobile industry or Toy manufacturers then I doubt we will get their attention as you may think. You may eventually see the improvement on newer models.
Example with hot start issues with the/some 562's and I believe some of the 550's were problematic also.
They came up with a air filter cap with a hole in it eventually. I know someone on here that bought one. [YES! he had to buy one after many trips back to the dealer] Husqvarna should have gave the memo out to all that filed for a warranty. Plain and simply. Many people still are having the issue and aren't any wiser. I don't doubt that there are a lot of dealers that aren't wise to it either.
A buddy of mine would do personal port work for a handful of Certified Utility Arborists (CUA's) in Vancouver's lower mainland and the Fraser valley.
They would bring him 8-10 carcasses of 365 slashing saws for trade.
They worked for Davey tree or Asplunha.
You are talking the biggest tree company in the world and the biggest utility company in the world.
Short of the story... Asplunha had three new 365's go down to top end failure.
The dealer pretty much flat out put the finger on them and said they were straight gassed. They had 6-8 slashers pulling gas out of the same supply.
The dealer wasn't hearing of it.
Can't remember the fine details of what my buddy said other than it should have been warrantee work as worked on the saws.
I would think with an account like Asplunha then you fix it anyway without argument. I am sure there are lots of times they don't come knocking when things could have been warrantied?
I know I never did one single time.
I have contributed to the problem because I ***** to the wrong people about quality going to **** with chokes and on/off switches and trigger locks. I have what I need on hand and replace it on the hill. I have replaced 2 switches and a trigger lock in the first week with a 372 and snapped the choke off the next week. All in reg temperature.
That wasn't the case in my first 10 yrs with the 371//372
I am pretty sure manufacturers fueling procedures are fueling 10ft (3m) away from main fuel cash and a 10 minute wait on a hot saw.
Unless you see a trend in injury or death that they can't defend as we see from time to time with automobile industry or Toy manufacturers then I doubt we will get their attention as you may think. You may eventually see the improvement on newer models.
