It’s .3/8” vs .404” saw chain?

[Huskybill]

i searched and read some posts about it. They suggest to use the .404” chain from 80cc ‘s and above. The larger cc’s engines don’t no the difference. Me personally like the 404 chains on my 2100/2101 saws. The 404 chain lasts longer a much higher mileage over the 3/8” chain. Longer tooth. As far as some saying it cuts faster the 404” 8 pin rim is larger in diameter. Plus the extra height of the tooth I can file a larger gullet into it. They say the longer bars with 3/8” chain seems to choke up more than the longer bars with 404” chain?

Any thoughts on 3/8” vs 404” chain
.

 

[Bobby Kirbos]

I have no experience running 404, but thinking of practicality, i don't think anyone has 404 chain on the shelf. You're going to need to either have a roll on hand and make your own loops, or order enough loops that you can swap now, sharpen later as necessary.

 

[Brent Nowell]

I’d like to see a side by side up close focused photo, a couple angles too. Front, top and side

 

[Huskybill]

I been buying 404 .063ga on rolls.

My Husqvarna 285’s, 385’s 2100’s and 2101 will run 404 chains.

 

[Skeans]

I was told in the future 404 will only be a harvester available chain for some brands.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[user 122190]

My ms880 with the .404 throws out BIG chips. Very impressive. I would switch to a 0.404 on my 461, but I can't justify the cost. I have extra bars and chains to last me many many years for that saw.

 

[Ted Jenkins]

3/8'' and 404 are two complete different sizes. They do not compare because they are different that is why manufacturers do not interchange them. The 404 is bigger wider and deeper than the 3/8 so why would you want to substitute them. There are 70 and 80 cc saws that will pull them, but not well. From the beginning the 404 was set up for a slower chain speed which is where they work best. The 404 does a better job of making a bigger wider cut while getting the chips up and away faster. It does this at a price in that it needs more pop to get this done. A smaller saw that is designed to run faster will struggle to keep up with the additional load. Thanks

 

[Huskybill]

The 404 chain is recommended for 80 cc saws and bigger. I ran 404 on both my 2100/2101 saws. I have 285/385 saws now too to run 404 on.

With the manufacturers focusing on the 60/70 cc saws making more power and lighter using 3/8” chain the big bore class saws may go away with the dinosaurs.

 

[user 122190]

My ms290 came with a .325. I switch to a 3/8s and nothing but good.

 

[grizz55chev]

3/8'' and 404 are two complete different sizes. They do not compare because they are different that is why manufacturers do not interchange them. The 404 is bigger wider and deeper than the 3/8 so why would you want to substitute them. There are 70 and 80 cc saws that will pull them, but not well. From the beginning the 404 was set up for a slower chain speed which is where they work best. The 404 does a better job of making a bigger wider cut while getting the chips up and away faster. It does this at a price in that it needs more pop to get this done. A smaller saw that is designed to run faster will struggle to keep up with the additional load. Thanks

The 404 also performs better in harsh conditions, where there’s a lot of dirt or sand on the logs. Less sharpening means more productivity

 

[Huskybill]

I notice my 2100 will pull a dull 404 chain through the wood at the end of the day. We can find a 404” b&c at affordable cost the only thing is no bar sprocket. Once the larger gullet is filed into the 404 chain a file n guide to arc the top cutting edge your good to go. The more chip clearance the better. Then just one pass with the file n guide when gassing up if it needs it, will keep the edge razor sharp.

Next I need to set up my baileys chain measuring chart on a board.

https://www.baileysonline.com/oregon-quick-reference-chain-scale-533129-orf-533129.html

 

[HumBurner]

Bumping this thread instead of starting new.


Lately ive been thinking about chain types for brushing, the crappiest of the crap. Whats the possibilty and efficiency of running a 14-18" .404 on something like a 346/550/357/562.

The reduced length would help. You could run semi or full skip to further reduce load. Very little over 8" would be cut with this setup, and most of it would be sprouts and resprouts that cant just be pulled by the root.

Motor life is a concern. Chain speed is not a concern.


Anyone try something similar?


Edit:

T K has a good thread changing his 365 special over to .404. Few other hopefuls.

It seems the best way to go is with an older model, 242/246/254/7 or 026/028. Finding bars and sprockets might be easier. Motors were torquier.

Anyone done it with the newest generation of saws?

 

[Huskybill]

I ran 404”/.050” full chisel on a 16”/18” bars on my 2100. With the rakers set deeper. Running a 9 t rim. From standing 15”/16” oak timber in ten degree weather to on the ground all bucked up in 50 minutes.

 

[CR888]

You won't get a small rim sprocket in .404 pitch. 3/8" is the largest chain you can run of a 550xp. You need a large spline clutch drum to run large spline rims. 404 rim sprockets are large spline. Even is you could make it work with modifications the lack of room within the clutch cover would be the next issue. You could do it on a 60cc saw that utilises a large spline. Then you would have to fine a solid RSN bar in 063 and switch the nose sprocket to 404. Usually bars setup to run 404 are 20"++

 

[HumBurner]

Was that for bucking?

Whats the cc/hp on the 2100?

Im trying to straddle the line of lightest powerhead that can pulla 14-18" for dirty, obstacle filled brushwork. In reality most any motor could pull it, but at what cost to the motor and parts as more heat is generated if it struggles?

The 246-257 or 026/028 range would be ideal for weight and potential longevity.

 

[Franny K]

You won't get a small rim sprocket in .404 pitch. 3/8" is the largest chain you can run of a 550xp. You need a large spline clutch drum to run large spline rims. 404 rim sprockets are large spline. Even is you could make it work with modifications the lack of room within the clutch cover would be the next issue. You could do it on a 60cc saw that utilises a large spline. Then you would have to fine a solid RSN bar in 063 and switch the nose sprocket to 404. Usually bars setup to run 404 are 20"++

Pretty sure the 562 drum with the large spline will fit on the 550. Don't the 560 model for other parts of the world often come fitted with .325 small spline drive? I bought the 550 drum to put on a 60cc Husqvarna but ended up getting a Dolmar instead, was a while ago. They both seemed to use the same oiler drive part. Not that it is really sensible, 3/8 at least Oregon 3/8 is rated for up to 100cc. I would use the Nk .325 for brush if that is what is being asked in post #12

 

[Bob Hedgecutter]

Was that for bucking?

Whats the cc/hp on the 2100?

Im trying to straddle the line of lightest powerhead that can pulla 14-18" for dirty, obstacle filled brushwork. In reality most any motor could pull it, but at what cost to the motor and parts as more heat is generated if it struggles?

The 246-257 or 026/028 range would be ideal for weight and potential longevity.

The Husqvarna 2100 is 99cc and 6.7hp on paper.

For what you are trying to find- think old school, find an old slow saw (which will be heavy) like an old 041 Stihl, then find an old hardnosed bar like a Duramatic 16-18 inch. That could be set up for .404 chain.

The saws you list in the 246-026 range- forget .404- it will never happen, but you might think about carbide tipped .325 on those?

Edit: After rereading your original bump- you are cutting less than 8" and probably more often 1-3"?
I would be seriously looking away from chainsaws and looking seriously at a circular bladed scrub cutter- like a line trimmer on steroids!
Can be suspended off a chest harness and will handle most of what you need.
You certainly do NOT want a 100cc 25lb Husqvarna 2100 to do what you are wanting unless you have the arms of Popeye.

 

[Huskybill]

Was that for bucking?

Whats the cc/hp on the 2100?

Im trying to straddle the line of lightest powerhead that can pulla 14-18" for dirty, obstacle filled brushwork. In reality most any motor could pull it, but at what cost to the motor and parts as more heat is generated if it struggles?

The 246-257 or 026/028 range would be ideal for weight and potential longevity.

At least a 65 cc to 70cc saw. My 365 husky and 570 husky rock with 18” bars, I learned something about ported 350’s there good on smaller stuff and light with a 16” bar.

 

[Huskybill]

http://www.madsens1.com/bnc_sproc_tun.htm
Old school slow rpm saws were torquey but increasing the diameter of the rim on the 2100, plug the governor, advance the timing does help. But the chain needs to be kept razor sharp.

 

[KASH]

The Sthil 08 and 08ss were 47 and 56cc and you had your choice of 404 7 pin or 3/8s 8 pin.A lot of the pro cutters I knew back in th the day ran 404.
Kash