What's wrong with me? My chain? My saw? See this dust flying fine as flour?

[Mad Professor]

That's why I said that suggestion was too kind- I would near put money on the fact those rakers have been hit with an angle grinder!

I hand file my chains. Always have, never sent them to be sharpened.

If the rakers are WAY to high, I use a light touch with an angle grinder first , to save filing time. Then, when I get the heights right with a file, I then profile/round the leading edge.

You have to be careful using the angle grinder, besides messing up/taking off too much, you can hit the cutters by mistake.

 

[777funk]

You’ve been given sound advice: take it.


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Yep. From many. Thanks. Picked up a fresh 7/32 file while out today. Will take new pics. Going to probably throw it on the grinder and take a picture of what it looks like fresh off the wheel for kicks since that chain had been used by the time of these pictures.

 

[777funk]

Ditched the HF grinder and back to hand filing. Hopefully this is better. The chips are good in oak but not quite match sticks like I'd like. Still makes dust out of that ugly dead maple piece.

Wish I could get a little deeper gullet.

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[Bob Hedgecutter]

There goes that optical illusion full chisel tooth again.
You wish you could get a little deeper gullet? Deeper down, or deeper back? Still kind of looks like you might not be getting the leading edge of the top plate to feather out- kind of like creating a burr that folds off the top of the tooth as you file- like your gullet might be sharp, but the top plate looks a little dull still- hard to call from the photo- but that is what I see.
Glad you decided to skip the grinder- be not much cutter left after another grind session.
I might suggest next time you are at the file store, buy them in dozen boxes. Your 038 will be running 3/8 chain also and one file will not last forever.
If I were you, I would buy a dozen files and a few loops of low priced chain- practice your hand filing on these cheaper chains, the tooth profiles are pretty much the same and you can get a feel for what you are doing/changing as you file them down- leaving the grinder out of the equation for a while. See what works, what doesn't and how altering the pressure, angle and position of the file alters the results.

 

[777funk]

There goes that optical illusion full chisel tooth again.
You wish you could get a little deeper gullet? Deeper down, or deeper back? Still kind of looks like you might not be getting the leading edge of the top plate to feather out- kind of like creating a burr that folds off the top of the tooth as you file- like your gullet might be sharp, but the top plate looks a little dull still- hard to call from the photo- but that is what I see.
Glad you decided to skip the grinder- be not much cutter left after another grind session.
I might suggest next time you are at the file store, buy them in dozen boxes. Your 038 will be running 3/8 chain also and one file will not last forever.
If I were you, I would buy a dozen files and a few loops of low priced chain- practice your hand filing on these cheaper chains, the tooth profiles are pretty much the same and you can get a feel for what you are doing/changing as you file them down- leaving the grinder out of the equation for a while. See what works, what doesn't and how altering the pressure, angle and position of the file alters the results.

I hand filed for the first several years. It was always hard to get chisel back enough to be square again by hand when bucking firewood so I switched to the grinder. I had decent luck with it for the 3/8 Picco. Some good results with 325 and still deciding if it's got a place with 3/8. I'm interested in taking sharpening speed and quality up a notch.

I ordered a dozen Bahco files this morning, but picked up one Oregon for now since it was locally available. The Bahco files were cheap and I like their other tools. Hopefully the files are as good.

I may see if a 3/16 file can bring the gullet further back for more hook, then finish shaping and sharpening with the 7/32. Not sure if that's a good plan or not. It was taking a long time to get the small amount of hook I now have.

I always slow the cut at the last inch when bucking and feel and watch for the bark, but after a few tanks of gas, inevitably the teeth need a 64th to a 32nd worth of filing. Chisel is not very forgiving.

 

[Bob Hedgecutter]

See, thats where we differ- I have been using saws for 40 plus years and have never owned nor used a grinder on chains. But I do tend to touch up the chains on the go so to speak, like at every or every second tank filling.
You can rock out the gullets and then work on the top plate- see if you can find any Billy Ray Smith videos on youtube regarding the subject- think he calls it the "boat" and going after the gullet.
You can use a smaller file with some success- but better to learn how to get the correct profile with the correct file- sure it might take some time- but results do come.

Oh- and as for running through a log on the ground and hitting the dirt- level off your powerhead to the ground, it will hit the ground first before the bar is low enough for the chain to ground strike.

 

[777funk]

See, thats where we differ- I have been using saws for 40 plus years and have never owned nor used a grinder on chains. But I do tend to touch up the chains on the go so to speak, like at every or every second tank filling.
You can rock out the gullets and then work on the top plate- see if you can find any Billy Ray Smith videos on youtube regarding the subject- think he calls it the "boat" and going after the gullet.
You can use a smaller file with some success- but better to learn how to get the correct profile with the correct file- sure it might take some time- but results do come.

Oh- and as for running through a log on the ground and hitting the dirt- level off your powerhead to the ground, it will hit the ground first before the bar is low enough for the chain to ground strike.

Part of my desire for the speed of a grinder vs files may have to do with my buying one file per 10 sharpenings or so. Will try tossing them sooner.

 

[Bob Hedgecutter]

Part of my desire for the speed of a grinder vs files may have to do with my buying one file per 10 sharpenings or so. Will try tossing them sooner.

Kind of depends how many strokes you are taking per filing as to how long they will last.
2 strokes a tooth will last 5 X as long as 10 strokes per tooth- keep touching up the cutting edge is easier on files and the filer than bringing cutters back from the death.

 

[HarleyT]

13/64th file........

 

[Justsaws]

Grinder wheel is not profiled and was pushed to far down into the cutter. It will look like that chain was sharpened with a file for 3/8 lo pro/.325 if the wheel is profiled and stopped stopped at the correct depth for the wheel. Misses the bottom half of the side plate however it will put the proper hollow grind in the top plate.

 

[lostone]

I have a HF grinder myself (want to get a nice grinder but trying to decide if I just want to go square ground).

The HF grinder is fine for cleaning up a rocked out chain and then hand filing it back into shape. The one thing I have noticed about the HF grinder is it seems to come in to steep and doesn't give a hook profile to the tooth and this is why I only use it to save time on trying to salvage a chain that hit something, usually brought to me by friends and co-workers who think it's time to get it sharpened when full body weight wont even make powder, but anyone can find a nail or rock occasionally. I'm not sure what angle it is coming down on but it just seems to need more to help make the curved profile in the cutter and you have to remember it's a $25 grinder and not a $250+ grinder.

 

[Huskybill]

We need a “saw chain sharpening 101” sticky section here.

From the first sharpening example with 3/8” chain. I use files only.

1. First I take a 7/32” round file and open up the gullet from under the top cutting edge to the bottom of the tooth, it’s more chip clearance.

2. Next I use the file n guide with the 7/32” file to sharpen the upper cutting edge top of the tooth.

3. On used chain check the depth of the rakers. If the rakers are flush with the top of the tooth you need to make three or four passes with a flat file to bring the cutting depth within spec.

If your cutting saw dusk most likely your rakers are flush with the top of the tooth.

As your 3/8” chain gets filed back more the size of the gullet file gets one size smaller on the file. A switch to a 3/16” file for the gullet. The file n guide 13/64” file.

 

[Huskybill]

Using the file n guide system is so much easier. It sharpens the top edge of the tooth, it has lines on it to match the forward angle of the tooth, plus we match the top uphill angle of the tooth. It’s all done for us with the file n guide.

 

[Skeans]

I have a HF grinder myself (want to get a nice grinder but trying to decide if I just want to go square ground).

The HF grinder is fine for cleaning up a rocked out chain and then hand filing it back into shape. The one thing I have noticed about the HF grinder is it seems to come in to steep and doesn't give a hook profile to the tooth and this is why I only use it to save time on trying to salvage a chain that hit something, usually brought to me by friends and co-workers who think it's time to get it sharpened when full body weight wont even make powder, but anyone can find a nail or rock occasionally. I'm not sure what angle it is coming down on but it just seems to need more to help make the curved profile in the cutter and you have to remember it's a $25 grinder and not a $250+ grinder.

You think you’re are 60 degrees on the wheel?


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[lostone]

I honestly don't know what angle it is coming in on but I believe it to be steeper than that, If I get a chance this weekend I will check and see what angle it is on.

However someone posted on here about it earlier and they may be right, the wheels are very narrow and that would cause someone to push into the gullet deeper on 3/8 RS or LGX with the higher cutter and cause it to lose the hook shape even with the wheel dressed to a proper profile and the grinder being on the correct angle. I have noticed that Archer cutters don't seem as tall as LGX or RS on the cutters for 3/8 and it may work better on it. I haven't tried it on .325 since I got the new wheel and with the cutters being smaller it may work fine for it as well.

I bought mine 15 years or so ago and it came with the pink/wider wheel back then but it got laid to the side and I must have placed something on it and cracked the wheel, the replacement wheel (brown in color) isn't as wide as the original that came on it and HF doesn't offer those wheels anymore, at least in store around here.

 

[Cliff R]

Not sure if it were mentioned or not but you will see some loss in cutting performance as the teeth get smaller.

Notice that they are not only sloped back some (requires dropping the rakers accordingly) they narrow as well. If you have any additional "slop" in the bar groove and the chain leans sideways you can experience very poor cutting when the teeth start to get to the wear limit.

I've had chains just quit cutting well worn back as far as the one on the pic above, even when correctly sharpened if/when the groove in the bar was a tad loose. Not a big deal, time for a new chain and maybe some bar maintenance or replacement......Cliff

 

[svk]

Ditched the HF grinder and back to hand filing. Hopefully this is better. The chips are good in oak but not quite match sticks like I'd like. Still makes dust out of that ugly dead maple piece.

Wish I could get a little deeper gullet.

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Show us a pic of chips from the oak....also cut some pine or aspen if you can and show up chips.

Is the maple going punky? You should get medium sized chips if you are cutting solid maple.

 

[Ginger15]

Also show us which direction you are cutting the wood.

 

[777funk]

This was with my other 3/8 saw (my 038) with the same exact chain, but more life left in it. Ground on the HF, then hand filed. Rip cutting in dead Hickory. It must be that that particular chain on my Husky won't cut. I got it sharper (by hand) but not match sticks like the chain on the stihl.

 

[Woody912]

Another full chisel is circled in blue, so someone may have spliced in the semis in the middle.
View attachment 762416

Good eye!!!