Check out this guy's Semi vs Full Chisel Speed Test Video. Full Chisel worth it??

[777funk]

I've always gone by feel and just agreed with the general consensus that chisel was faster, but recently I had a semi chisel chain good and sharp and I was pretty happy with it's speed.

Take a look at this video:


I have it cut to the end with the summary but basically:
Stihl RM (Semi Chisel): 4.9 seconds
Stihl RSC (Full Chisel): 4.7 seconds
Stihl RSL (Square Ground Full Chisel): 5 seconds

All three are for all intents and purposes the same 5 seconds (in this wood anyways). If that's the case, or even if the full chisel was 10% faster, why dull the chain faster and go through more tooth material sharpening. I'm sure there are other videos out there. This was the first I found with quick and easy data/numbers.

 

[Andyshine77]

This is not all that surprising with chain out of the box. Also the numbers are well within the margin of operator error.[emoji111]

 

[Franny K]

The operator might like the chip properties of the chisel more, or less. If the intent is to cut up a blow down or cut for a lumber log there is a lot less cutting than if the intent is to make rounds to be processed into firewood. And the more travel time the less a few seconds in the cut matters. Or you must get back at a certain time hence time in the cut is quite important.

 

[Termite]

Bigger wood would be a better test. This test IMO means nothing.

 

[777funk]

I've heard that out of the box vs sharpened a few times makes a huge difference with square filed chisel. But wouldn't full vs semi be pretty fair in comparison right out of the box (both factory sharp)?

I've seen some videos where square ground chisel is 10% faster. For me this isn't worth the cost of the grinder or learning to file it. Maybe someone who cuts all day or races.

 

[Andyshine77]

I've heard that out of the box vs sharpened a few times makes a huge difference with square filed chisel. But wouldn't full vs semi be pretty fair in comparison right out of the box (both factory sharp)?

I've seen some videos where square ground chisel is 10% faster. For me this isn't worth the cost of the grinder or learning to file it. Maybe someone who cuts all day or races.

No and no.

Out of the box chain is mostly garbage and inconsistent, some are better than others. Oregon seems a bit more consistent when it comes to depth gauge height, but the teeth can be dinged up. Stihl's teeth are in better shape, but depth gauge height is all over the place. Oregon also has much better out of the box square ground, Stihl square ground out of the box is sometimes almost not usable the depth gauges are so high. Stihl is far more durable and setup correctly cuts really well, but it's too beefy for race chain IMHO.

That 10% is for work chain, square ground can be much much faster. It's also not just about speed, square ground is much smoother cutting and feeds and bore cuts better. For the average joe square ground doesn't make much sense. Some loggers won't cut with anything else.

 

[Brent Nowell]

No and no.

Out of the box chain is mostly garbage and inconsistent, some are better than others. Oregon seems a bit more consistent when it comes to depth gauge height, but the teeth can be dinged up. Stihl's teeth are in better shape, but depth gauge height is all over the place. Oregon also has much better out of the box square ground, Stihl square ground out of the box is sometimes almost not usable the depth gauges are so high. Stihl is far more durable and setup correctly cuts really well, but it's too beefy for race chain IMHO.

That 10% is for work chain, square ground can be much much faster. It's also not just about speed, square ground is much smoother cutting and feeds and bore cuts better. For the average joe square ground doesn't make much sense. Some loggers won't cut with anything else.

Fascinating, I had no idea that square ground was popular among loggers.
I have yet to try it, my dealer doesn’t even know what it is....
might order a loop online some day

 

[777funk]

Fascinating, I had no idea that square ground was popular among loggers.
I have yet to try it, my dealer doesn’t even know what it is....
might order a loop online some day

I'm just a firewood guy (not a logger). I tried a loop of square ground a few years ago and ruled it out for me. I only tried factory sharp, so it wasn't a real taste of what it's full potential is. But I can see from time test videos that it's more a novelty item for my uses. I dulled it in a couple tanks of fuel. Filing worked but took lots of patience.

After this video, I'm going to try semi chisel again. I hate it when I hit dirt bucking a log and completely lose the chisel's corner.

 

[Andyshine77]

For some semi chisel is what works best for them. Getting several tanks out of square ground in hardwood is impressive, I often go over my chain in between tanks, but I can't stand my chain not to be just right.

 

[Andyshine77]

Fascinating, I had no idea that square ground was popular among loggers.
I have yet to try it, my dealer doesn’t even know what it is....
might order a loop online some day

Out west that's all many loggers will fell with, it's not all that common east of the Rocky Mountains.

 

[Skeans]

Fascinating, I had no idea that square ground was popular among loggers.
I have yet to try it, my dealer doesn’t even know what it is....
might order a loop online some day

It’s very popular out here, it’s faster and works better with longer bars that we normally run.

That’s a brand new semi skip that went straight to the grinder I hate the factory grinds of both Oregon and Stihl myself.


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[lostone]

Skeans, what are you doing to set the rakers and what are you setting the depths at? I've only played with one loop of it (Stihl) and it had to have been 20 years ago. The loop that I had cut great but I never ran it long enough to even dull it before I let the saw go and the chain on it. I'm considering getting a high end grinder and also considering just going to square when I do it but haven't worked with it obviously enough to learn what it likes. I usually set my round files stuff to .035.

 

[Skeans]

Skeans, what are you doing to set the rakers and what are you setting the depths at? I've only played with one loop of it (Stihl) and it had to have been 20 years ago. The loop that I had cut great but I never ran it long enough to even dull it before I let the saw go and the chain on it. I'm considering getting a high end grinder and also considering just going to square when I do it but haven't worked with it obviously enough to learn what it likes. I usually set my round files stuff to .035.

.025 done on an Oregon 511 set at 60 degrees wheel is dressed so it has a slight lean to round the raker. For a square grinder I have an older Pro Sharp we’ve had since new that came home from Jack at one of the Oregon Logging Conferences many years ago back when they were affordable.


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[lostone]

Thank you.

 

[Andyshine77]

Skeans, what are you doing to set the rakers and what are you setting the depths at? I've only played with one loop of it (Stihl) and it had to have been 20 years ago. The loop that I had cut great but I never ran it long enough to even dull it before I let the saw go and the chain on it. I'm considering getting a high end grinder and also considering just going to square when I do it but haven't worked with it obviously enough to learn what it likes. I usually set my round files stuff to .035.

.035" is too low for most everything .025" most of the time, sometimes .030" with a good strong saw, anymore than that in hardwood the chain will be grabby. Often guys that set depth gauges too low need to work more on setting the tooth in proper shape, at least that's been my observation.

 

[Andyshine77]

It’s very popular out here, it’s faster and works better with longer bars that we normally run.

That’s a brand new semi skip that went straight to the grinder I hate the factory grinds of both Oregon and Stihl myself.


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Some day I'll get me one of those.[emoji106]

 

[Skeans]

.035" is too low for most everything .025" most of the time, sometimes .030" with a good strong saw, anymore than that in hardwood the chain will be grabby. Often guys that set depth gauges too low need to work more on setting the tooth in proper shape, at least that's been my observation.

At 035 you’re getting close to harvester territory which can be a dangerous situation.


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[lostone]

It could be a .030 plate I use, I kept bouncing when writing that between the two but was pretty sure it was a .035. Softwood and haven't had a issue.

 

[Brent Nowell]

Good thread

So are you guys hand filing these? I hear it’s hard but imo just looking at it I don’t see how it’s any harder than round ground. What kind of file is used?

I’m now very interested in trying this

 

[777funk]

Good thread

So are you guys hand filing these? I hear it’s hard but imo just looking at it I don’t see how it’s any harder than round ground. What kind of file is used?

I’m now very interested in trying this

It's harder because you have to land right on in the working corner to not have beak one way or the other. Also the side and top plate angles are not as foolproof as with a round file and guide. A lot more to keep an eye on while filing.