Any legal minds? How can aftermarket company's make...

[Den]

For example, how can company's like Cannon, Sugihara, Oregon, etc. make guide bars specifically for Echo, or Husqvarna saws and even use the name Echo or Husqvarna on their websites, and the bar mount pattern is specifically for a particular model of saw. Why don't the aftermarket company's get sued?

On those same lines, how can a company like Sten make air filters for instance, that fit a specific model of Stihl or Echo? Is that copyright, trademark, or patent infringement?

Aftermarket manufacturers are making products that directly compete with the saw manufacturer and cut into the saw makers revenue. How are aftermarket company's able to do this?




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[82F100SWB]

The exact same way the entire automotive parts industry works.

 

[Philbert]

Different laws for copyrights, trademarks, patents, service marks, etc. Different rules in different countries, and some are not well enforced.

Plus, it is up to the holder of that intellectual property to pursue enforcement, so a company like STIHL could spend all their time and money chasing infringement - like 'whack-a-mole'. So they have to choose their battles.

Is a filter patentable, or just an application of a long expired patent technology? What's the difference between 'STIHL' and 'fits STIHL'? Ever see fine print like: 'Trademarks for reference only and remain the property of their respective owners' ?

Can be frustrating. As a buyer 'caveat emptor'. If people did not buy counterfeit/ clone stuff because it was cheaper, we would see less of it

Philbert

 

[ShneaSIG]

The design of the part or implement would, generally speaking, be subject to protection by patent, assuming the invention and design is patentable (that's a whole different topic). If you're seeing the part sold out on the open market (in the US, anyway), it's pretty safe to assume that either 1) it's not protected by patent or the patent has expired, or, 2) the design and manufacture is permitted pursuant to a license agreement with the patent owner.

As for using the name "Stihl" or "Husqvarna", that's trademark. The general rule of thumb is that so long as the packaging clearly marks the manufacture and origin of the part as coming from the aftermarket manufacturer, and only designates that the part is for use with a Stihl or Husqvarna XYX, and pays proper trademark attribution while not using logos (or using logos by - you guessed it - pre-authorized license agreement), then that won't be trademark infringement.

 

[ShneaSIG]

On a different note, there's a strategic decision to be made whether to encourage the aftermarket. Allowing the aftermarket to exist (or even encourage it by the application of permissive license agreements) can be a way to recapture profit and grow market share. If you see a trademark logo on an aftermarket parts, that's almost certainly being used under license and the aftermarket producer is paying for the privilege. The name brand licensor probably gets a royalty off the sale in addition to an up front license fee. When part sales isn't a big profit center for the name brand owner, working with the aftermarket manufacturers and retailers is usually good business.

 

[SEAM]

Most parts used in chainsaws are based on commonly used technology - a bar is just a solid or laminated plate with a groove around it, a slot for the mount and a couple of bores for oil. That's it and has been around for 100+ years... The same goes for most other parts.
Placing a trademark name on those parts is a different story as the trademark warrants the quality of the product or is supposed to and therefore needs to be protected.

 

[ShneaSIG]

In manufacturing, it's not uncommon that the tooling for making a particular part or product is sold to an aftermarket manufacturer once its no longer useful to the original owner. I.E., Stihl stops making Saw X to replace it with Saw Y. The tooling used to make Saw X can't be repurposed. So, Stihl may sell that tooling to Acme Co., and marry that sale with a license agreement that lets Acme Co. make some or all of the parts of Saw X, but prohibits Acme Co. from selling completed saws, etc., etc.

 

[Deleted member 117362]

Google International Patent laws in China. One patent court decides merits of case and if they do not want to hear it, go fish. Hard to enforce a patent if country does not want to look at case. Makes you say WHAT? Another reason is name brand manufacturers have plants in China and if they want to remain there, do not rock the boat.

 

[Ted Jenkins]

Many years ago when working for a major manufacture company I came up with a very practical item that had not ever seen the light of day. So I set out to copyright and patent item. Just to get response from all the agencies I talked to took a year. Then to start manufacturing said item with a goal set in mind took also a great deal of time. While working on product the manufacturing company started producing exactly what I was working on. Even though I had proceeded correctly no body cared. It was going to take at least $100,000 in legal cost to even make noise so never thought about it again. To spend so much resource to go after a particular company or organization then another huge amount of effort to collect when nobody cares. Thanks

 

[Philbert]

In theory, US Customs could seize and destroy counterfeit items coming in from other countries. Sometimes you will see a news release on this, such as with designer clothes.

But with the volume of goods arriving, they really have to prioritize, so again, it falls on the owner of the intellectual property to pursue the actions.

If you see something on eBay or Amazon, you can report it to them. Not sure how good their follow up is on a single report, but probably good if the manufacturer's legal team contacts them.

Philbert

 

[HarleyT]

There was a period of time that manufacturers hade a copyright on certain things, like a unique shaped hole on a mower blade, and that expires with time. I have been out of the game for a while, so what goes on these days, I cannot say.

Here is the oem:

 

[HarleyT]

And the aftermarket, will work, just a visibly different pattern.

 

[HarleyT]

As far as China pirating stuff, and what can be done about it, it is hard to combat.

 

[ShneaSIG]

There was a period of time that manufacturers hade a copyright on certain things, like a unique shaped hole on a mower blade, and that expires with time. I have been out of the game for a while, so what goes on these days, I cannot say.

Here is the oem:
View attachment 770106

"Patent" Patents are for useful inventions, and have a relatively short lifespan.

"Copyright" is for art, works of creation, etc., which are not useful or employed for a purpose beyond being appreciated for the inherent value of its existence. Copyrights expire, but last for much longer than patents.

Trademarks are the names and logos used for identifying products and their origin.

 

[Philbert]

Some companies, notably John Deere, have also trademarked specific colors, when used in a similar application.

Philbert

 

[Haironyourchest]

On another level, do we want to pay 10 to 12 notes for (let's say) a paper airfilter? When the knockoff costs 1 and the name brand is made on the same line as the knockoff, just with a logo on it? I know I don't want to pay 9 credits for a logo.

 

[HarleyT]

OK, then it was a "Trademark" of the shape...

https://www.luckybreakconsulting.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/CopyrightPatentTM.jpg

 

[HarleyT]

My lawyer is on vacation......

 

[Philbert]

My lawyer is on vacation......

Your lawyer probably needs a vacation . . . .

Philbert

 

[Nathan Graff]

Not related to saws, but related to the topic:

I was in the Mercedes dealer getting parts for my car, and there was a sign on the parts counter that had 2 lengths of chain held together by a bent paperclip. The text of the sign went something like, "Using aftermarket parts is the weakest link in your Mercedes."

The parts manager was there and he and I are quite friendly. So, I pointed to the sign and made some silly comment. The parts manager pulled up his chair and started talking with me. He told me basically the following:

Mercedes like all manufacturers contracts out building many of its parts to other manufacturers, and those manufacturers stamp the Mercedes logos onto the parts. Buying the same part from the manufacturer rather than from mercedes didn't affect quality.

Also said that some manufacturers that weren't the original equipment manufacturers made parts that fixed a particular problem that cropped up years later and wasn't anticipated by the manufacturer (In this case Mercedes) or for special applications that were outside of the manufacturers recommended use of the original product. Most of these parts were well manufactured, and actually improved the quality of the car. These included coil over suspensions to replace hydraulic, or racing suspensions for track days. He went as far as to say that some of the mechanics would put those parts on their own cars on their own time in the shop.

Then there are the knock off aftermarket parts that were a lot cheaper that were made from inferior materials, sloppier machining specs, poorly lined up fastener holes, etc. Those were the parts that made the techs and the shop nervous.

Anyways, I hope this helps someone understand what is going on.