Are kit saws pretty much junk, or just mine?

[Okie294life]

I just build a MS 380 saw, when I say built, I mean took components from a scrap 038 and put them on a huztl top/end-crankcase which was new. It ran okay for a couple minutes but now it idles erratically and dies when tilted over on the clutch side. I don’t want to run it like this, I fear the head bolts aren’t holding, because it’s showing symptoms of sucking air somewhere. I’ve done a lot of work on this piece, thinking about parting it out and getting the whole mess out of my sight. What do you all think?

 

[cuinrearview]

All

 

[Ted Jenkins]

You answered your own questions. Some where you made some errors. Kit saws aren't perfect either are brand new name brand saws. Quality is more likely to be questionable on cheap replacement kits or parts. However with some skill and expertise they will give owners a great deal of reliable service. I prefer to build completely from a kit or completely rebuild a saw from the crank up. You will have to take a vacuum test or pressure check every aspect of your saw to be certain you have every thing in proper order. A experienced builder will assemble the carb cylinder knowing that there is little chance of error. After you have built several great running saws you will achieve a great deal of confidence and expertise. And once and a while an expert will forget to install a grommet around a vacuum line or such. Just be patient and determined and you will achieve. Thanks

 

[Okie294life]

You answered your own questions. Some where you made some errors. Kit saws aren't perfect either are brand new name brand saws. Quality is more likely to be questionable on cheap replacement kits or parts. However with some skill and expertise they will give owners a great deal of reliable service. I prefer to build completely from a kit or completely rebuild a saw from the crank up. You will have to take a vacuum test or pressure check every aspect of your saw to be certain you have every thing in proper order. A experienced builder will assemble the carb cylinder knowing that there is little chance of error. After you have built several great running saws you will achieve a great deal of confidence and expertise. And once and a while an expert will forget to install a grommet around a vacuum line or such. Just be patient and determined and you will achieve. Thanks

I’m not a 100% rookie, I’ve fixed plenty of other small engines. It just seems that the aftermarket stuff is not made to tolerance and they do a $&@$ job of torquing bolts down where something is assembled. I’ve got a pressure tester, just didn’t expect the need to use it on a fully assembled short block, was kind of thinking bolt-n-go.

 

[EchoRomeoCharlie]

Get what ya pay for.

You can make cheap kit saws run well, but you pay for it in time and energy. Some people enjoy that, some people don't. Depends on what's more important to you, time or money.

 

[TimberWolf530]

My take is that they are selling for $200 what normally sells for $750+. Figure it out.

 

[EchoRomeoCharlie]

The biggest problem I have with Chinese saws, and people buying them, is that they let all the real companies do the real work and spend all the money on R&D, then they rip off their designs and steal their market share.

This is exactly what Harbor Freight is doing to the quality tool market. We used to have a few options around for quality American made tools...but Chinese companies start coming out with junk at half the price and the market eats it up. Well, quality tool manufacturers can't compete because they don't want to produce crap quality...yet all most homeowners care about is cost...so they keep buying junk even after it breaks because they can buy it 3 times for the price of a quality tool. Eventually you don't have any options for quality tools anymore because they have all folded. At that point, the Chinese crap prices go up and you're back to paying the same price you used to for quality and getting crap.

I haven't bought a damn thing from Harbor Junk, and I won't as long as I can. Same reason I won't buy ripped off saw designs from China. Now...if they were to come up with their own design? I'd be ok with that.

 

[lostone]

OK, I had a big write up about this but I won't start a war. EchoRemeoCharlie, have you tried Doyle line of tools that Harbor Freight carries? While a lot of their stuff is low end they have changed and are changing a lot of their line of tools to a better quality tool. Are all of Harbor Freights tools top of the line? no. Does everyone need to buy a $1K set of snap on wrenches because they want to change the oil in their vehicle?

 

[motorhead99999]

I haven’t had any problems with my ms660 kit saw and I run it pretty hard but my understanding is like buying a new Subaru either you get a good one or u don’t

 

[TheTone]

A little bit of background . . . at 20 years of age I was an Ivy League Marxist. By 30 years of age, with a decade in the "real world" I had become a libertarian leaning conservative. A lot of study and life experience led me to believe that free market capitalism was, as Churchill said, ". . . the worst economic system in the world, except for all the others". However, there is one intrinsic fault of capitalism that I have found to be probably true: In a free market, cheaper, inferior goods tend to win out over more expensive, higher quality goods. I don't think this is a fatal flaw, though, because high quality goods will always have a niche, even though with a smaller market.

 

[lostone]

OP, it's your saw and in the end your choice what you want to do. I personally don't see anything as bolt and go but that is my opinion and comes from working on stuff that's suppose to just drop in and it not work regardless of the quality of the item I purchased.

You have a pressure tester and you already know the only way to find out if it is something from the kit or something that didn't go in right when you put it together is going to require you taking the time to find what the issue is and again it's all going to come down to if you want to take the time to figure it out or not. Maybe set it to the side for now if it has you that frustrated and come back to it at a later time.

Stop and think about it, it could be worse, imagine you went out and you where buying a new saw and paid top dollar and it had an issue with it that required you to take the saw back several times in an effort to get it functioning properly. I know it sounds weird but I have read several of those on here. I have a kit saw right now that I am wanting to put together and I have done as much reading as I can to try to find area's that are known issue's and have done about all I can to resolve those before I attempt to assemble it, however I know even with all that and the best I can do something may present itself and I will just have to work with it the best I can. I chose to go this route.

 

[Okie294life]

I haven’t had any problems with my ms660 kit saw and I run it pretty hard but my understanding is like buying a new Subaru either you get a good one or u don’t

I would have to disagree if you are talking about cars since 90% are still on the road after 10 years...I’ll take them odds. Now small engines you are probably right. I haven’t heard a lot good about them.

 

[motorhead99999]

I would have to disagree if you are talking about cars since 90% are still on the road after 10 years...I’ll take them odds. Now small engines you are probably right. I haven’t heard a lot good about them.

Iv had my Subaru for 6 years. At 6 thousand miles it spun a bearing. They put a new 2.5 in it and was good till about 50,000 miles then all hell broke loose , one turbo multiple timing sylinoids, a intercooler because somehow the plastic on the end cracked then the normal wear and tear stuff. But that’s off topic. Some of the kit saws are good. I guess I got a good ones and with a couple oem parts the awesome. Some models are worse than others from what I hear. The ms440 kit is iffy but the 660 kit is a better choice for a bigger saw. probaly because so many have been produced are allot better than they use to be. I have run close to 35 tanks through mine milling and haven’t had a single issue

 

[Huskybill]

OK, I had a big write up about this but I won't start a war. EchoRemeoCharlie, have you tried Doyle line of tools that Harbor Freight carries? While a lot of their stuff is low end they have changed and are changing a lot of their line of tools to a better quality tool. Are all of Harbor Freights tools top of the line? no. Does everyone need to buy a $1K set of snap on wrenches because they want to change the oil in their vehicle?

I will never buy snap on again there guarantee is worthless. All our dead blow snap on hammers cracked at the same time can’t get in touch with snap on for warranty. I buy sears craftsman, Tekton tools but mainly S-K tools there warranty is the best.

https://www.tekton.com/ never needed there warranty yet.

For S-K tools I shop eBay and put socket sets together. S k are very expensive new.

 

[lostone]

S&K are my favorite ratchets. They have a replacement ratcheting guts now that doubles the tooth count, making them a fine tooth ratchet. The way they did it allows it to stay strong like the regular tooth count and you keep the same handle.

 

[EchoRomeoCharlie]

OK, I had a big write up about this but I won't start a war. EchoRemeoCharlie, have you tried Doyle line of tools that Harbor Freight carries? While a lot of their stuff is low end they have changed and are changing a lot of their line of tools to a better quality tool. Are all of Harbor Freights tools top of the line? no. Does everyone need to buy a $1K set of snap on wrenches because they want to change the oil in their vehicle?

I hear this constantly, 'They're getting better...they make some good tools...." Who cares? It's still junk. Just because it's better than the trash they were putting out a few years ago doesn't mean it's quality.

I've used tools from HF before as a friend of mine is obsessed with them. He breaks tools constantly. Every time we work on something a tool of his breaks. I don't know what line they were, they all felt like cheap junk and they broke like cheap junk. Everything from box end wrenches, sockets, ratchets, to impact guns. I can count on 1 hand how many of my craftsman tools have broken. Every single time, it's because I was using a cheater bar. Every single time, the item has been replaced free of charge.

Yes, even if China did produce a equal quality product it would cost less...because labor over there is cheaper. I still wouldn't buy it. I support quality American made products when I have the choice. I just wish more people would prioritize quality when it comes to something that SHOULD last you a lifetime.

A homeowner doesn't need to spend snap-on prices. There are/were quality made budget tools available that keep American men and women working. Craftsman was a quality made in the USA tool that has a good warranty and was affordable by the masses. Less so now and keeps getting worse.

I get how the market works and if consumers want cheap junk, then someone is going to provide it for them. I just hate how easy it is for Chinese companies to blatantly steal designs that cost billions to come up with, and sell them in American markets. That's wrong in my opinion.

 

[lostone]

Well in today's world your NOT going to find many American made tools that most can afford and that's a fact you are going to have to accept. There is the option of buying used which I do a lot but when you do that let's face it you are NOT supporting American jobs, it's already been made the first time. Call it junk if you like, I pointed out a brand that is fantastic and if you don't want to accept that then there is no reason to try to enlighten you.

 

[EchoRomeoCharlie]

Here's the thing. I bought quality already. I don't need to be 'enlightened'. If I, a broke college student at the time, could afford quality tools, anyone can. The difference is most people don't prioritize quality. Unfortunately most people now-days wouldn't know how to turn a wrench if their life depended on it.

I don't need tools now and I won't need tools possibly forever. If I do, I'll support American made products if at all possible.

 

[lostone]

America has changed from a manufacturing nation. It's something I wish hadn't happened but it's something that has to be accepted. Buying American products no longer means you are getting the best product available. To many companies road their previous quality name brand for all they could get out of it. Fact's are facts like them or not.

 

[EchoRomeoCharlie]

America has changed from a manufacturing nation. It's something I wish hadn't happened but it's something that has to be accepted. Buying American products no longer means you are getting the best product available. To many companies road their previous quality name brand for all they could get out of it. Fact's are facts like them or not.

When it comes to hand tools, cheap Chinese junk is still inferior to products produced pretty much anywhere else in the world. As are cheap Chinese saws compared to American, German, and Swedish.