Just say no to Chinese bearings?

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With the amount of outsourcing going on these days getting good roller, tapered roller or Torrington style bearings is a crap shoot. The problem with Chinese bearings of those variety is hardness and base material content. They tend to be too hard and self destruct easily.

Case in point. I try to avoid anything from China for my engines but purchased was sent a set of PRW full roller rocker arms for the last engine build for my GTO. The engine is pretty "high end", about $12,000 worth of parts and machine work, but I topped it with a set of stainless steel full roller rockers supplied by the shop who CNC'd my cylinder heads and supplied the custom ground roller camshaft. Never gave it a second thought just figured they had good success with those items as they supplied them.

Engine goes into service, makes great power, car runs the numbers, all good to go....WRONG!

At the first oil change, apprx 200 miles my magnetic drain plug has about a teaspoon of metal "toothpaste" on it. Hum, where is all that coming from? No negative symptoms other hat a tiny bit of rocker noise, so I lash the valves and run it some more. Next oil change same deal. Re-lash the valves again as it's clattering just a tad more than I think it should and I keep driving and racing the car.

Within about 100 miles it starts clattering again in the valve train so I remove some rockers and low and behold the rollers are pretty loose on the pins, some worn out to .017" clearance. Turns out the pins for the rollers are simply too hard and getting all ground down. PRW gets them back, identifies the issue, says the corrected it (2009) but to this day we still see the same problems with them. I replaced mine with Crower Enduro rockers (USA made and very expensive, no more issues).

For bearings we see the same issues, parts that mate and ride on each other inconsistent in Rockwell hardness and "brittle" materials so they typically do NOT hold up in long term service. Buy Chinese drill bits if you want to see how brittle those materials can be.

We install a good many wheel bearings in the shop and absolutely REFUSE to use the cheap crap they sell at the auto parts stores or on-line. If you are buying $30 bearings you'll be lucky if they last 6 months. Get the $150-200 a piece versions or OEM replacements and they will go the distance every single time.

The problem with small replacement bearings is that outsourcing and re-boxing often makes it difficult if not near impossible to know what you are getting inside the package. Sometimes you can tell by the price, or by visual inspection (most cheap Chinese or other offshore crap is often dark in color on the rollers) but not always.

I've been burned enough times with this sort of thing to be very particular with parts. One last quick story of how this works. A few years ago my Kohler 12 HP engine in the JD-212 takes a dump. Turns out a mouse decided to build a nest on the engine cooling fins and it got hot and melted the ring lands on the piston in that area and the piston failed.

I just to go NAPA and order a piston/rod, hone the cylinder and put the engine back in service. It very quickly develops a double "knock" and ends up getting so loud I have to remove it. I can't find the issue anyplace, piston skirt mics fine, rod bearing to crank oil clearance OK, I'm stumped. So I'm very slowly rotating the engine and when the piston gets to BDC and TDC I see it "rock" in the bore as it changes direction. So I mic the top of the piston and it's like .030" SMALLER than the skirt....WTF???

I pay 20 times as much and source out genuine Kohler parts, reassemble and now quite a few years and hundreds of hours later flawless!

Just some things to ponder on when sourcing out parts. The NAPA Kohler piston did NOT easily identify the Country of origin for the part, I just figured it was a suitable replacement, measured the skirt clearance, ran with it and got bit in the backside pretty hard. Doubled the labor and frustration on a very simple job simply because I used junk parts from offshore........FWIW.......Cliff
Soooooooo..... what brand bearings are you putting in chainsaws?
 
I haven't done any bearings in quite a few years and the last time I did I used genuine OEM parts in 2009 for my own 268XP.

99.9 percent of the small power equipment work I get here is cleaning out fuel systems and carburetor work, and once in a while P/C replacement......Cliff
 
Potayto potahto

Then theres the potato.... the real deal.

But I'm pretty sure the 30yr old original france bearing is in better condition than this BNIB Koyo. I likely would have just put the original bearings back in if I had only bought a Koyo to begin with thinking that was the standard of todays work :laugh:

Actually though... probably splitting hairs. Where's the beating a dead horse emoji?
 
Then theres the potato.... the real deal.

But I'm pretty sure the 30yr old original france bearing is in better condition than this BNIB Koyo. I likely would have just put the original bearings back in if I had only bought a Koyo to begin with thinking that was the standard of todays work :laugh:

Actually though... probably splitting hairs. Where's the beating a dead horse emoji?
So many more factors that determine quality besides what it looks like or sounds like. I've seen some aftermarket jugs that look pretty special, and run like dogshit. The "C" or clearance spec has a range, and the bearing will run well wherever it is within it, despite sounding different. I have some 6203 C3s here in my hand, Japanese Nachis and Koyos made in Romania. They indeed appear different, and sound slightly different when spun. Guess what though? Both were in the same spot in our supply crib, to be used interchangeably. We have probably over 1000 different bearings in the plant. Pretty much the only thing I don't see is "made in China".
 
So many more factors that determine quality besides what it looks like or sounds like. I've seen some aftermarket jugs that look pretty special, and run like dogshit. The "C" or clearance spec has a range, and the bearing will run well wherever it is within it, despite sounding different. I have some 6203 C3s here in my hand, Japanese Nachis and Koyos made in Romania. They indeed appear different, and sound slightly different when spun. Guess what though? Both were in the same spot in our supply crib, to be used interchangeably. We have probably over 1000 different bearings in the plant. Pretty much the only thing I don't see is "made in China".

Sure, theres more to it than meets the eye. I get that.

This SKF is damn near silent. The Koyo sounds hammered out and rattles. Will they both perform the same function? Yes, I'm sure they will. Does 1 definitely pass the pepsi challenge proposed to a blind kid? Yes. Clearly they're manufactured "differently". Specification adhered to or whether they'll work the same or not. Some things are just built to better fit and finish rather than just meeting a specification to say it will work in X application.
 
Sure, theres more to it than meets the eye. I get that.

This SKF is damn near silent. The Koyo sounds hammered out and rattles. Will they both perform the same function? Yes, I'm sure they will. Does 1 definitely pass the pepsi challenge proposed to a blind kid? Yes. Clearly they're manufactured "differently". Specification adhered to or whether they'll work the same or not. Some things are just built to better fit and finish rather than just meeting a specification to say it will work in X application.
Or the SKF might lock up when it heats and expands.

All I'm saying is, with bearings, function should follow form. As long as you got the genuine article attempting to qualify the quality based on some rudimentary criteria is a fools errand. Despite what you think you're seeing or hearing, they're technically the same part. Again, assuming you have the genuine article.
 
I like using cheap junk bea

I swear that oil is same as Husqvarna XP. Same color, same smell, same feel, same bottle (different color). Do you know?
I don't but a couple years ago cases of 5 gal size bottles sold on ebay for under $50, so it's what I'm using for the foreseeable future...
 
Or the SKF might lock up when it heats and expands.

All I'm saying is, with bearings, function should follow form. As long as you got the genuine article attempting to qualify the quality based on some rudimentary criteria is a fools errand. Despite what you think you're seeing or hearing, they're technically the same part. Again, assuming you have the genuine article.

The black marking on the inner race of the koyo does say C3 as far as I can tell.
 

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attempting to qualify the quality based on some rudimentary criteria is a fools errand. Despite what you think you're seeing or hearing

Ever take something out of the box and thought to yourself this is a piece of ****?

Then take the "same" thing but manufactured by someone else out of the box and you think to yourself nice, this feels like a quality piece?

Thats what my rudimentary criteria is. The koyo is in the former group.
 
It's just the outer edge. The actual races and balls are identical, give or take within spec. These are both high quality bearings. Interesting that the manufacturers denote the clearance rating differently.
20191106_124053.jpg 20191106_124342.jpg I would be more than pleased to put these in any build I did. Anyone got a clapped out 394 or 395 for these? 2186?
 
Ever take something out of the box and thought to yourself this is a piece of ****?

Then take the "same" thing but manufactured by someone else out of the box and you think to yourself nice, this feels like a quality piece?

Thats what my rudimentary criteria is. The koyo is in the former group.
Maybe you got a fake. What I see here across Nachi, Fag, Koyo, SKF, NSK, etc is consistency. These ain't spark plugs.
 
Say NO to everything coming out of China that you possibly can...

Bearings, steel, pipe, wire, clothes...
 
Maybe you got a fake. What I see here across Nachi, Fag, Koyo, SKF, NSK, etc is consistency. These ain't spark plugs.

Who knows, if so then it was really well done as a faux marketing. These came from reputable local OEM suppliers....they didnt come off from XX off the internet.

All I see as a consistency between the two is they both spin. In spec or not.

Spicer Vs Moog U joints... theyre both U joints. Theyre both capable of transferring rotational power at an angle. Moogs are trash and spicer is the leading manufacture for good reason.

Sure I can sit here and trust koyo knows what theyre doing and it's in spec and it's as good as the next name brand. It probably is. We're talking rudimentary warm fuzzy feelings at this point :laugh:
 
Who knows, if so then it was really well done as a faux marketing. These came from reputable local OEM suppliers....they didnt come off from XX off the internet.

All I see as a consistency between the two is they both spin. In spec or not.

Spicer Vs Moog U joints... theyre both U joints. Theyre both capable of transferring rotational power at an angle. Moogs are trash and spicer is the leading manufacture for good reason.

Sure I can sit here and trust koyo knows what theyre doing and it's in spec and it's as good as the next name brand. It probably is. We're talking rudimentary warm fuzzy feelings at this point :laugh:
Agree, Moog quality is not what it used to be! Their replacement 2500HD front wheel bearings are only good if you like replacing them.
 
Interesting, I do not have Koyo bearings with seals or shields to compare. The bearings are marked on the outer race, tiny letters that I need magnification to read. The markings are KOYO, 6202C3, ROM. The packaging is a blue box and inner clear bag with blue printing.

Completely oil free and dry they chatter like I would expect any C3 6 series bearing to chatter. I would be concerned about a bearing that did not chatter. The chatter is where the misted oil goes. This is not an excessive amount and I cannot feel the chatter when holding the bearing, although somebody else might.

I need to go back and correct a previous post as the Koyo 6203 bearings are made in Japan not ROM. Also, needle bearings from Koyo that I have are made in the USA, labeled Koyo/Torrington, they hold up, very nice bearing. Edit function has expired, so nope.
 
China know how to make quality, they have every quality of steel and tools available, that's just not the cheap items you want to buy.
 
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